5.1: What did you break about rogues, Blizz?

#1 - Nov. 29, 2012, 3:09 p.m.
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This REALLY isn't a QQ thread, or meant to be one. It's a serious "is anyone else noticing this?" kind of thread. Talking solely about PVE btw.

The situation:

I didn't see ANYTHING in the patch notes that would have lead me to believe that they were changing rogues in ANY way, much less some huge nerf of any kind (which we really didn't need anyway).

Pre-5.1, I was doing about 80-85k dps with relative ease and consistency (fully raid buffed, flask, etc.).

I got several key upgrades last week, including a second 489 dagger, and some other gear.

In addition to those upgrades, after 5.1 hit I upgraded my MH dagger from 489 to 497.

I'm now pulling 73k dps if I'm lucky.


So I ask again, in all seriousness, what got broken? Because I'm not imagining this, and have had several people in my guild ask me what happened to my DPS.

Now, I've heard that there might be some things about Dancing Steel and Windsong that could be affecting it, but is that REALLY 12-15k worth of DPS difference? I have a hard time believing that...

If anyone else has noticed this please chime in or clue me in, because shadowcraft still has me supposedly simming at 84k, and that's just not happening. Yeah I know it's just a sim, but last week my sim numbers were matching my actual numbers consistently.
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#21 - Nov. 30, 2012, 12:59 a.m.
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I believe it's dancing steel not procing twice from dual weapons anymore, it justs reset your proc instead of adding a second..

Unnoficial Spell Changes in 5.1....

The change to Dancing Steel is actually part of its status as a Real Proc Per Minute (RPMM) system, which was in the patch notes.

  • The Dancing Steel, Jade Spirit, Colossus, and River’s Song enchantments now use the Real PPM system utilized by Windsong and Elemental Force.

You can read more about how RPMM works here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6893549789#1

Dual wielding with a RPMM enchants means that you'll get double the frequency of procs, but the system doesn't currently allow for double active procs.

We're happy with how the RPMM system has turned out, and we think it's a stronger proc system than those we've used in the past, and offers more consistent results for players too. That said, we know that some players find double active procs fun, though, so we're exploring the possibility of altering the system to allow for them in the future.

Now, all of that aside, the original poster's issue was most likely associated with an issue that was hotfixed yesterday:

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#28 - Nov. 30, 2012, 2:49 a.m.
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Good news, everyone!

As I mentioned, we've been investigating the possibility of altering the Real PPM system to allow double procs. It hadn't been done previously due to technical challenges, but we found a solution much faster than expected, and we're currently working on a hotfix to allow Real PPM enchantments to proc separately per weapon.

Yes, this means that if everything goes smoothly, you'll soon be able to have two simultaneous Dancing Steel procs, or (very rarely) six simultaneous Windsong procs.
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#29 - Nov. 30, 2012, 2:50 a.m.
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11/29/2012 05:08 PMPosted by Zushiba
I saw that hotfix and it hasn't fixed the drastic reduction in DPS I've observed.

If you use Recount or a similar dps tracker, can you identify any categories of output that are much lower than they've been historically?
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#99 - Dec. 1, 2012, 2:59 a.m.
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11/30/2012 12:41 PMPosted by Zivh
Hotfix already went live it appears, Rogues in guild getting two simultaneous DS buffs. Can you confirm Dax?

Confirmed: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/7922045/Patch_51_Hotfixes_-_November_29-11_29_2012

  • Item Enhancements
    • Enchantments using the Real PPM system will now generate two buffs simultaneously, rather than simply refreshing the duration of an existing effect.