Blizz wants you to know this

Q u o t e:
Can you please differentiate wintrading from point buying/selling?

Sure can!

Win trading is a form of collusion that undermines the integrity of the arena system by which one team intentionally queues against another with a pre-determined outcome. This is direct exploitation of the arena system, and is considered to be cheating. It is often practiced by those that wish to artificially inflate team or personal ratings. It is also often exploited by those that sell arena points to maintain team ratings in the wake of selling points.

Point and team selling are completely different from win-trading (though they may benefit from it in some cases). Point selling involves adding players to a team and allowing them to play the minimum necessary games to accrue arena points for the week. Team selling involves getting a team to a high rating, and then transferring leadership of that arena team to another player with some cost of in-game currency. Neither of these practices will be very effective now that 2.4.2 has arrived. This is because a player whose rating is 150 points or more lower than the team rating will gain arena points based on their personal rating, and not the team rating.

Q u o t e:
Further can you define what the basis was for suspension/banning? Is your policy to simply remove all gear and suspend/ban any person who has been on a team that win traded? Regardless of whether that individual was on the team when the actions took place?

No, we will not be revealing how 'win traders' were identified, as we certainly do not want to introduce methods by which these players will attempt to avoid detection. I realize that can be frustrating, but that's just the way it is.

As has been stated repeatedly, if you were actioned over the course of this sweep, and feel that action was in error, then please reply to the email that you were sent on the subject, or send an email from your account's registered email address to [email protected] to dispute the action. It is not wise to do so if you were in fact win-trading however.

Q u o t e:
Without question Blizzard has known about win trading since the advent of arenas - why the delay in such a simple fix (ie 2.4.2)?

Developmental solutions take time to implement, and while we've been tracking win-trading for some time, and have indeed actioned it in the wake of Season 2, the value of the most recent changes needed to be weighed against the impact that they might have on players that were not exploiting the system.

Q u o t e:
Why are account actions taken immediate but the response and resolution to the account action so lengthy? Can you verify that the staff to handle the thousands of complaints was put in place prior to the action to completely, expediently and fairly review EVERY situation? How will this influx affect all other issues unrelated to this matter, particularly if no additional staff was assigned?

My apologies, but there is much that you do not, and will not, know about how this situation was investigated and actioned. The account actions were not taken lightly, nor 'immediately', and each is the result of extensive research over a long period of time. Does this mean that human error was entirely absent? No, but it does mean that the majority of those protesting and submitting disputes currently will find to their dismay that attempting to 'shout down' this account action will be ineffective in the face of the facts.

The same staff that investigated these situations initially will also be handling the disputes related to the situation, and these matters will be handled completely and appropriately as they are received.

Q u o t e:
Assuming Blizzard has even the tiniest regard for it's customer base, why was the following not considered?

* Account notice sent to a customer stating they are suspected of win trading and pending the investigation may be subject to some sanction? Allow those toons to undertake the process of defending themselves BEFORE the action is taken? Instead of issuing thousands of suspensions/bans and effectively preventing competent review by your staff - and having to force legitimate customers to not only be denied the service they pay for but have to prove their innocence to a crime they have been convicted of without trial?

We have great regard for our players, actually, which is why this action was undertaken - to promote a fair and enjoyable arena environment for those that participate, and to censure those that exploited this system. Your tone suggests that the majority, or even a significant percentage of those actioned were innocent. Flatly, this just isn't true.

All account actions are applied the same way, however, and there has never, ever been a situation where a player was 'accused' and then offered the opportunity to defend their actions. The gross inefficiencies of such a system should not have to be explained.

This is a not a court of law, and there is no due process. If your account raises suspicions to such a high degree that it prompts an investigation, and if that investigation shows that activities against our policies were taking place, then action will be taken. We do offer a means to have an account penalty reviewed however, by disputing the matter with our Account Administration department. That is the long and the short of it. That is how it has always been, and I fully expect that account actions will continue to be applied this way in the future.

Regardless, our staff will continue to review these issues completely and competently.

Q u o t e:
It is my opinion that Blizzard has handled this situation with all the delicacy of a dictator/drug dealer. Fair enough I guess, but is that really the image Blizzard wants to advertise to it's customer base?

How about it Blizz?

A dictator? Well, I suppose that's fair, if you consider that the actions taken are those of a benevolent dictator. A drug dealer? Not so much.

Our goal is to provide the best possible experience for all our players, and we do so by making rules and policies, and then subsequently enforcing them. You seem to have some very strange ideas about how we should be doing so based on real life legal systems. That analogy fails, in that in life, absolute evidence is extremely difficult to come by. In World of Warcraft, irrefutable evidence is quite accessible, and moreover, it is a game. It is a game that has rules, and when a player opts to play World of Warcraft, they agree to abide by those rules.

We have enforced those rules in a manner that enhances the effectiveness of the penalty. It really is just that simple.

Q u o t e:


Thank you for the response(s) :-)

Quickly, we know account actions have been overturned, so we know that there are errors in the detection process - the predisposition that they are necessarily correct imparts what the disposition of the review staff will be.... cause for concern.

I do find this little quip interesting tho, Under Rules of Conduct, section C item #3

Anything that Blizzard considers contrary to the "essence" of the Program.

Benevolent dictator? Has there ever been such a thing?

Oh, and I beg to differ. The detection process works beautifully - it just so happens that those that were overturned may have purchased teams or points from win-traders, or had teammates that win-traded in their absence. As before, these overturned actions are not nearly so common as some would have you believe. Quite rare, in fact.

Meh, I was merely working off of your analogy. The fact is that comparing our account actions to legal processes, and our administrative style to a real world governmental system creates comparisons that break down rather quickly in detailed analysis.

Think of us more like a firm but fair Dungeon Master, overseeing all your character sheets and dice and whatnot. What we say goes, and I won't make any apologies about that. On the other hand, if our game isn't fun, you aren't imprisoned. You can move on to other games.

We pour ourselves into making this game so fun and compelling that you won't want to go, though. Sometimes we have to take action against those that break the rules, to make sure that things stay as fun as possible for those that play by the rules.

Q u o t e:


Benevolent dictator eh???? lol

CENSORSHIP!!! D'OH

*grin* I'm glad you have a sense of humor about the whole situation.

In the interest of providing a clean and fun arena for discussion, we're gleeful censors here in the Customer Service Forum. In this case art does not mirror life - if you want life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness (along with all your other Constitutionally guaranteed rights), then I recommend going outside and playing in the sunshine.

If you want to play a damn good MMO (if I do say so myself), then abide by the rules, and spend some time in front of the computer.

Just please realize that MMO ≠ real life. Justice is done far more often here ;).

Q u o t e:
I most certainly did not sell points, I did buy points. 1 of my characters was affected and has since been restored. Guess your wish to penalize innocent people was denied... poor you.

Let's not fib about restorations. While I understand that you are still in dispute resolution regarding your Priest, there's already a vast, vast overestimation of the number of these cases that have been overturned.

I'd prefer not to spread misinformation.

Q u o t e:
Fib?

Fib?

this isn't the account the toon I had restored is on.

You seem to have a very personal interest in this Mal - up to and including censoring posts and not answering the questions about what 'unsupported' means.

How about spreading a little "INformation" hrmm?

Q u o t e:

lolz

nothing better than professing a truth over which you have no idea

but keep on it man... maybe all that sucking up really will net you a beta key...

By the way ~ still no answers about 'unsupported'

interesting

Actually, I was referring to the account that your Priest is on, not this account. Apologies for the tardiness of my post – though your question regarding 'unsupported' has been answered elsewhere. The forums have had a few technical issues on our end, and I also went to lunch ;).

Q u o t e:
Mal - instead of editing my post (nothing like censorship) could you please help me understand a bit more of what Blizz means by 'unsupported'?

I'll typically edit posts for a couple of reasons (which is exactly like censorship). Primarily to preserve a spirit of productive discussion, but also to avoid applying a forum suspension to a poster that I do not feel quite justifies one yet. On rare occasions, I may do so to make a subtle point as well. Apologies if you were offended.

Now then, regarding 'unsupported':

Here's the long and the short of it - typically 'unsupported' practices are in the grey areas of our policies that we are currently reviewing. This means that our policies on those subjects may change in the future, but that for the moment, those activities are not considered to be a violation of our policies.

As a result, this typically means that we will not intervene if a dispute arises over such a practice between players. On the other hand, when we detect that 'scamming' or exploitation are becoming the norm amongst a previously unsupported practice, we may begin investigating and actioning 'scams' related to such activities quite.. vigorously. It's never a good idea to scam anyone, for any reason.

With regard to your case in particular; if you were solely buying points, then that should factor into the review of the situation. I truly wish you luck in your dispute. If you'd purchased rating, though, for example, that could cause some complications. The vast majority of 'rating vendors' could only accomplish such a boost reliably through win trading - in purchasing the rating, you might have indirectly purchased (and much more importantly, your character would be required to participate in) win trading as well, and would thus could be culpable.

Please stop being obtuse, Xinister.

I removed your post because 1) it was conjecture-based, 2) it would only encourage others to attack you, and 3) it wasn't relevant to this thread.

If you truly believe that we do not listen to our player base, then please discontinue use of the Dressing, PCT and PCNC services, Guild Bank, and other such provisions.




In the meanwhile, let's cease this line of discussion, as I do not wish to lock this topic.

Thanks. :)

Q u o t e:
i would like to move him over to my friends account and am prepared to pay $40aus.

the reason i would like to move him is because he has leveled him, but he then got more time on his account and went back on his caracters.
if u can send an email on how to [email protected]

First off, this is expressly against our terms of service. You cannot transfer characters to other people, nor are you allowed to play on their accounts.

Secondly, please don't dig up ancient posts.

Thanks!