New LFR Loot System is Just Bad

#1 - Aug. 30, 2012, 5:11 a.m.
Blizzard Post
Please revert it back to the way it was in 4.3.4. Let me elaborate so this just isnt a rage post and is actually constructive.

The current LFR loot system offers no sense of completion. I'm doing all of this work such as tanking and killing the boss and then I have 0% chance to roll on an item. Instead I have to take a chance that the game likes me enough to give me an random item for my spec.

The old LFR loot system at least allowed me to have a better chance of getting loot for my spec. For example lets say I was a tank, there is only 1 other tank in the raid that could roll on the item with me, therefore giving me a 50/50 chance of winning the tank piece. But now with the new system my chances are cut in half and maybe less.

There is a potential that the entire raid could not even receive a since piece of loot.
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#12 - Aug. 30, 2012, 4:30 p.m.
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I'm betting they've put some sort of minimum in (e.g. at least 5/25 people will always get loot). They aren't completely stupid.

Nope. There is a small chance nobody will get loot and an infinitesimal chance everyone will get loot. Random is random.

I had thought the loot system was supposed to favor a person who actually needs the loot. I ran 2 LFRs yesterday and got 3 pieces of gear I already had.

The game doesn't analyze your character and come up with a list of potential upgrades. It just makes sure it doesn't give priest gear to a paladin.

It doesn't favor anyone and that's the point. All loot rolls are individual and not affected by anyone else.


Remember the goal here was not to make gearing up faster or to provide players a way to force certain loot drops. The goal was to remove potential drama that results when a group of strangers in a fast-moving raid doesn't have the time or inclination to sit down and agree on who should get what loot. Nobody can accuse you ever again of "ninjaing" an item that was a better upgrade for them. Players can be angry at the laws of probability (or even us) instead of each other.

I understand some of you liked the wheeling and dealing of deciding who should get an item. We just think that will work better for a pug in normal difficulty where you have more control over group composition, can agree on some ground rules, and generally move at a slower pace.
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#64 - Aug. 30, 2012, 6:45 p.m.
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It would be nice if the loot was at least trade-able within the raid. I ran on my mage yesterday, and although I need gear, I got pieces I already had. I then looked at the DPS meters and noticed someone who had very good APM and was at least trying to DPS but was lacking and gear and attempted to toss it to them but alas I could not.

It's great that you're willing to help out your fellow player, but as soon as the possibility for that exists, it undermines our attempt to remove drama, because it would allow players to try and argue with you that they deserve the item you won.

And players are going to flip a conniption when no one gets any loot off a boss.

As I said, we'd rather you get frustrated because RNG isn't working in your favor rather than get frustrated because someone who doesn't even care whether they won an item that you desperately want refuses to trade it to you.

But i need to SEE what I didn't win. Right now it seems like the boss died, and I got 25g in a sack. that's it. I don't care that I didn't win any loot, but I DO need to see WHO did, and WHAT they won.

We considered this, and still might, but part of what we didn't like with the old system was how spammy the messages were. If 10 people win loot, it still might be pretty spammy. As other players point out, there is also a secondary consideration that it might be more frustrating to see a couple of guys win an item that you wanted rather than just not know.

I expect the common lack of understanding of statistics will be directed firmly at Blizzard over and over again.

Yep. Players mad at us is a superior situation to players being mad at each other.
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#163 - Aug. 31, 2012, 12:38 a.m.
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They wont tell us

one post said 5%, then another post said not 5%

4 per 25 would be 16%

but I doubt its that, because they dont want people gearing that fast and there is Charm or good fortune tax.

So its probably around 10% but there is no way to know for sure till blizz fesses up.

Off the top of my head, I believe the chance is 15%. That does not include the Charm of Good Fortune.

•New roll results frame added. This new feature can be accessed by clicking the word "[Loot]" in chat, or by typing "/loot".

What does this do? And does it apply to LFR?

If you want to see the results of a loot roll, you can look at the [Loot] link. This system replaces the spam of having a bunch of rolls in chat. This is particularly helpful under Master Looter when you invite individuals to roll. It does not apply to Raid Finder. If we decide that announcing who won what in Raid Finder is a good idea then we could add it.

Personally I never found an instance where someone got mad because they didn't win what they wanted. However I did find circumstances where someone would win a piece that they already had or didn't need such as having the normal or heroic version of the piece. But honestly, the solution to that problem is sooo easy to fix. Just don't allow players to win loot if they already have the piece on their character or in their bags, it is that simple.

You're lucky. I've seen plenty of ugly arguments in the Raid Finder runs I have been on. (I always pass on everything, because I'm just there to observe.) If you're running with friends, then there is a big incentive to not be a jerk. If you're running with some dude from another realm who you'll never see again, then there's much less reason to be nice to the guy.

I'll also challenge the "it is just that simple." Some warriors want two copies of Gurthalak. Do we always push two-handed weapons to warriors? Just Fury warriors? What about caster shaman who might want to gem their Elemental and Restoration sets differently? What if you don't have the LFR version of the item, but you have the normal version? What if you don't have that exact item, but you have a better item for the same slot? We can come up with rules for all of those, but they're not simple rules and players may not understand them. Today you can roll on an item that you already have. Maybe you want to disenchant it. Maybe you're just greedy.

Furthermore, if we don't let you get an item you already have, we're not going to give you the other item that you want -- that just lets you gear up more quickly. Instead, we'd give you gold instead. When fishing for a particular item, I think it would feel better to get an epic item that I already own rather than to get nothing but gold over and over again. But I understand that might be subjective.