RP/RPPVP Realm policies & enforcement Qs

#0 - Jan. 4, 2007, 8:46 p.m.

Greetings!

I'm posting here in response to the Blue response by Pavonum on Argider's "Call to Arms: Defend Roleplaying!" Thread on these forums, which was locked due to cross-linking. I don't speak for Argider, but I have been talking with him about the subject on one of his threads, and do have some questions of my own about policies and enforcement on the RP and RPPVP realms.

1) Is there a difference in enforcement of the RP policy, between the standard RP realms and the RPPVP realms? In my experience, this seems to be the case (based on the results of reports made by myself or friends, in those instances where the results were discernable). I would like a definitive answer so I know whether it's a waste of my time to expect GMs to enforce the same sort of compliance with the RP policy on a RPPVP realm, as they would on a normal RP realm.

Specifically with character names, it seems that the RP policy naming rules are not enforced. This may just be the only apparent area, however, due to the fact that whether or not a character has been renamed is easily discernable if the reporting player really wants to know. I understand that there is always an amount of GM discretion involved in evaluating names, I would simply like to know for certain if there is a purposeful difference in the degree or method of enforcement between the two realm types, as it will aid me (and many others) in deciding where to make permanent homes for ourselves. Most roleplayers see the PVP ruleset as more realistic and therefore conducive to immersion, but a lower degree of policy enforcement on RPPVP realms would be non-conducive to immersion.

2) This is a large issue for me. There are a large number of non-roleplaying players on every RP realm I have ever played on. Anti-RP sentiment runs high amongst many of them, even those that perhaps originally did not have a problem with roleplayers and roleplaying, and are/were the type of non-roleplaying player that most roleplayers would consider welcome on an RP realm (Those players seeking a higher level of maturity from other players in their game environment, primarily).

The reason, in my opinion, that anti-RP sentiment increases with time on an RP realm, is the nature of policy enforcement and the mindset of non-RPing players. Basically, rather than being mollified when caught breaking Blizzards rules, due to the fact that they get away with it until another player reports them, these players see the fault as being with the other player, who 'tattled' rather than with themselves violating Blizzards rules. In many cases, due to being asked to correct their behavior beforehand, such players actually have a good idea who reported them. Even when they don't, if it comes to violations of the RP policy in specific, that wouldn't be an issue on a non-RP realm, they see the culprit as 'those QQing RPers'.

Peer pressure from people with such a mindset, who largely actually outnumber the RPers on their own realms, also contributes. It's also entirely possible to start playing on an RP realm, without knowing or caring what the RP tag means; as well, on RPPVP servers, there is a misconception that RPPVP realms are 'either or both' sorts of places, equally open to roleplayers, and to players who openly mock roleplaying, so long as they're there to PVP- which, going by what the policies say, is not meant to be the case.

Realistically, even on the best day of the best RP realm I've played on, the player base as a whole never came close to behaving according to Blizzards rules. If you look at what's supposed to be acceptable, and what actually happens, in any given place and time, on any channel (not only in the low-level zones). If I addressed every player who stepped over the 'real' line, the letter of the policy, I would spend my entire day doing that, let alone reporting the people who refused to alter their behavior after being informed they were breaking the rules. It's almost certain that the majority of players on an RP realm have never even glanced at the policies page, let alone the RP policies in specific.

I would like to see the behavior of the player base on the RP realms improve. I would like to be able to have general chat enabled without being inundated with things that I shouldn't have to read on an RP realm. I guess my question is, can anything be done about the nature of reporting/enforcement on RP servers? Something in the method of the GM intervention, perhaps, or some way of keeping the fact that players on an RP realm, are subject to the RP policy per Blizzard's intent, and player reporting of violations is actually requested, in the forefront of the players minds? I respect that enacting something of that nature or even answering the question directly may be beyond the power of any CS agent reading this... If so, can you tell me how to escalate the issue to someone who makes policy decisions such as this, and get the point across of just how big a problem this is, so that, even if in the far future, some beneficial change might be made?

3) As I have said already, every RP server has more non-roleplayers than roleplayers. Non-roleplayers are not a bad thing on an RP server- especially not if they respect the RP enviroment. But in my experience this imbalance is deep and wide and the respect is not there. So this is more a request/suggest than a question, again something that may need to be escalated to a higher level, if you can give me information on how to do so (aside from posting on the suggestions forum).

I think that the roleplaying community could benefit greatly from being more centralized, rather than spread thinner. Many RPers, being dissatisfied with their current RP server, migrate to newer servers when they are opened. The WoW roleplaying community is probably not growing as quickly as the WoW playerbase in general, so as these new RP and RPPVP servers get opened, and only a small portion of the joiners are new players, the majority (of those who actually roleplay) being folks who are migrating from a previous server... the RP community is being spread thinner and thinner onto servers which all seem to be dominated by anti-roleplay enthusiasts (and yes, many people pursue the subject enthusiastically).

So my request in this case is that at some point in the future, some of the current RP and RPPVP servers allow open outbound transfers to one or two other RP servers. This would appeal to roleplayers, and allow them to centralize, while not appealing to many of the non-RPers who, for whatever reason, are playing on RP servers and now would rather not be, or are indifferent. Even without retagging any current servers to lower the number of official RP servers, allowing free transfers for such a reason, even on a short-term, one-time basis, would be a huge boon to the WoW roleplaying community. Even if it were to be to new servers only, or some such, as long as they were RP servers allowing inbound transfers only from other RP servers (though doing it with -existing- servers would be far better, as new servers are more likely to appeal to the non-RPers as well as the RPers).

I realize that, as I've already said, some of what I've said/asked fits more as suggestions than as CS issues. I appreciate, in advance, your overlooking it if doing so does mildly transgress. I'm bringing these grievances and questions here in the hope of actual input, and information on appealing to a higher authority if necessary. If the subject matter does garner your interest, please feel free to actually look for Argider's thread in the suggestion forums to get an idea of the number of roleplayers who are looking for solutions, and some of the wonderful ideas those players have to offer.

Thanks again for your time in reading! (EDIT: I just re-read what I wrote. I hope no Blues say "TL;DR"... )

Pavonum

#2 - Jan. 4, 2007, 2:26 p.m.

Before I begin, Caelarion, I'd like to commend you on the cogency with which you have expressed your concerns regarding roleplaying and its enforcement on RP-PVP realms. I shall do what I can to address your points with equal verve, as I've given this topic some thought. :)

Q u o t e:
1) Is there a difference in enforcement of the RP policy, between the standard RP realms and the RPPVP realms? In my experience, this seems to be the case (based on the results of reports made by myself or friends, in those instances where the results were discernable). I would like a definitive answer so I know whether it's a waste of my time to expect GMs to enforce the same sort of compliance with the RP policy on a RPPVP realm, as they would on a normal RP realm.

Despite what can only be called anecdotal or circumstantial evidence on your part, the enforcement of our Roleplaying Policy is no different on RP-PVP realms than it is on "normal" (i.e. RP-PVE) RP realms; while there are some disparities in terms of other policies, this is due only to the inherent differences between PVE and PVP realms, and has no bearing on roleplaying in and of itself. One possible cause for what you claim to have observed is that -- because of the occasionally incongruous playstyles and belief systems of the stereotypical “roleplayer” and “PvPer” -- there are more instances of disputes between those who believe to be upholding the honour of Roleplaying, and those who oppose them.

Q u o t e:
Specifically with character names, it seems that the RP policy naming rules are not enforced. This may just be the only apparent area, however, due to the fact that whether or not a character has been renamed is easily discernable if the reporting player really wants to know. I understand that there is always an amount of GM discretion involved in evaluating names, I would simply like to know for certain if there is a purposeful difference in the degree or method of enforcement between the two realm types, as it will aid me (and many others) in deciding where to make permanent homes for ourselves. Most roleplayers see the PVP ruleset as more realistic and therefore conducive to immersion, but a lower degree of policy enforcement on RPPVP realms would be non-conducive to immersion.

Again, there is no appreciable difference between our enforcement of roleplaying on RP-PVP realms and that on RP-PVE realms; with regards to names specifically, however, I've observed what can only be called a "disconnect" between what players believe to be in violation of our policies and what the Game Master Department believes to warrant a name change. While we certainly appreciate all reports of potentially inappropriate names, it is important to remember that players' interpretations of our policies are ultimately immaterial, as Blizzard holds sole jurisdiction and discretion over name changes, and we shall not always agree with players. Thus, I feel this is an inaccurate gauge of our enforcement of the Roleplaying Policy on RP-PVP realms, as there is already some level of dispute present that would very likely skew players' judgment.

Q u o t e:
The reason, in my opinion, that anti-RP sentiment increases with time on an RP realm, is the nature of policy enforcement and the mindset of non-RPing players. Basically, rather than being mollified when caught breaking Blizzards rules, due to the fact that they get away with it until another player reports them, these players see the fault as being with the other player, who 'tattled' rather than with themselves violating Blizzards rules. In many cases, due to being asked to correct their behavior beforehand, such players actually have a good idea who reported them. Even when they don't, if it comes to violations of the RP policy in specific, that wouldn't be an issue on a non-RP realm, they see the culprit as 'those QQing RPers'.

To begin with, Caelarion, your argument that players who violate our policies do not see themselves as being to blame because they "get away with it until another player reports them" is somewhat fallacious, given that all infractions -- whether they occur on RP realms or not -- must be brought to our attention by concerned players; if there's a distinction to be made here, I apologise in advance for misconstruing your statement.

That aside, I can certainly appreciate what appears to be the main part of your concern here: that those who violate our policies, due to the fact that other players must ask them to cease their inappropriate behaviour before officially reporting them to us, can have some idea who took issue with them. This is an unfortunate side-effect of our policies in this regard, but I feel our reasoning behind requiring players to take this additional step is sufficiently important to justify any potentially adverse effects. That may sound callous, but there is a method to our madness.

The fact of the matter is that roleplaying realms have a layer of interaction above and beyond that which is found on "normal" realms, and -- rather than being something that is easily compartmentalised and regulated -- it exists as an intangible interweaving of thousands of backstories and systems of belief, all of which represent varying intensities of roleplaying. To truly do justice to such a delicate balance, we must allow the tellers of this grand story, those sitting at the looms of imagination (as it were), to reconcile their differences whenever possible on their own terms through in- or out-of-character negotiation; only if these attempts at diplomacy fail should the higher authority need to become involved.

"But wait!" you stammer, attempting to get a word in edgewise. "This isn't just a simple case of conflicting beliefs -- they're breaking the rules!"

Ah, but according to whose interpretation? One of the issues with enforcing roleplaying is that there are so many levels of it. Some players will craft elaborate backstories, chronicle their character's lineage back several centuries, invent languages for themselves to speak, and remain slavishly in-character, eschewing the parentheses used by "less devoted" roleplayers; others are just natural storytellers, and enjoy the idea of acting out their tales through WoW, but aren't such purists that they won't occasionally talk about a new movie that's come out in guild chat.

Which of these players is more entitled to exercising their creative license, and which has the more "correct" interpretation of our policies? Ultimately, neither of them; each has an equal share in the collective storyline present on each roleplaying realm, and any disputes that arise between their respective views of what constitutes "roleplaying" should ideally be sorted out among themselves. In short, we encourage roleplayers to request others to cease their "inappropriate" behaviour not because of apathy on our part, but because we wish to empower players to determine for themselves what is and is not "appropriate," based on their own perspective of roleplaying and its intricacies.

Q u o t e:
I would like to see the behavior of the player base on the RP realms improve. I would like to be able to have general chat enabled without being inundated with things that I shouldn't have to read on an RP realm. I guess my question is, can anything be done about the nature of reporting/enforcement on RP servers? Something in the method of the GM intervention, perhaps, or some way of keeping the fact that players on an RP realm, are subject to the RP policy per Blizzard's intent, and player reporting of violations is actually requested, in the forefront of the players minds? I respect that enacting something of that nature or even answering the question directly may be beyond the power of any CS agent reading this... If so, can you tell me how to escalate the issue to someone who makes policy decisions such as this, and get the point across of just how big a problem this is, so that, even if in the far future, some beneficial change might be made?

While alteration or adaptation of policy is (as you suspect) not an aspect of the game over which I personally have any control, I do appreciate your desire to see improvement in others' behaviour -- it is one we share. However, I feel that your assessment of the current system's efficacy is somewhat defeatist; you seem to be of the belief that players' efforts (and our own) accomplish nothing, which I can tell you from personal experience is not the case. That said, I regret to say that there are no means available to me by which your concerns regarding our method of enforcement may be conveyed to the proper authorities to take them into consideration. I am interested to hear your ideas for how the system may be improved, however, so that I may more intelligently respond to them; I'm more than happy to engage in a bit of back-and-forth.

(Continued in the next post.)

Pavonum

#4 - Jan. 4, 2007, 2:28 p.m.

Q u o t e:
3) As I have said already, every RP server has more non-roleplayers than roleplayers. Non-roleplayers are not a bad thing on an RP server- especially not if they respect the RP enviroment. But in my experience this imbalance is deep and wide and the respect is not there. So this is more a request/suggest than a question, again something that may need to be escalated to a higher level, if you can give me information on how to do so (aside from posting on the suggestions forum).

I'm truthfully not certain what it is you're advocating here, Caelarion; there is little that can be done to guarantee that all players who create characters on RP realms are roleplayers. Even if such a functionality could be implemented, by whose definition would we determine whether a given player qualifies to be called a "roleplayer," as opposed to a "non-roleplayer"? As I've already said, each player exhibits varying degrees of roleplaying, and it is the interplay of these variances that creates and nourishes the rich roleplaying environment on every RP realm. To attempt to fashion a ruler by which all who fancy themselves "roleplayers" shall be measured, and allow or disallow character creation based on whatever subjective criteria these players meet, would serve merely to oppress those who wish to try their hand at roleplaying but are new to the playstyle.

Q u o t e:
I think that the roleplaying community could benefit greatly from being more centralized, rather than spread thinner. Many RPers, being dissatisfied with their current RP server, migrate to newer servers when they are opened. The WoW roleplaying community is probably not growing as quickly as the WoW playerbase in general, so as these new RP and RPPVP servers get opened, and only a small portion of the joiners are new players, the majority (of those who actually roleplay) being folks who are migrating from a previous server... the RP community is being spread thinner and thinner onto servers which all seem to be dominated by anti-roleplay enthusiasts (and yes, many people pursue the subject enthusiastically).

Again, I'm at a loss to imagine what possible solutions you can offer to encourage the centralisation of the roleplaying community; although I can see your argument, I'm not certain I agree with your sombre perspective on it. Rather than "spreading itself thin," I personally believe that the roleplaying community is reaching out to new players each time it moves a part of itself onto a newly opened realm; this, more than anything else, encourages growth and enrichment. If, as you suggested, the roleplaying community were centralised to any large degree, this would almost certainly result in a few select realms -- the crÃ¨me de la crÃ¨me, so to speak -- becoming massively overpopulated. Even in the healthiest of communities, login queues and stability concerns take their toll, and would likely do more damage than the occasional "non-roleplayer."

Q u o t e:
So my request in this case is that at some point in the future, some of the current RP and RPPVP servers allow open outbound transfers to one or two other RP servers. This would appeal to roleplayers, and allow them to centralize, while not appealing to many of the non-RPers who, for whatever reason, are playing on RP servers and now would rather not be, or are indifferent. Even without retagging any current servers to lower the number of official RP servers, allowing free transfers for such a reason, even on a short-term, one-time basis, would be a huge boon to the WoW roleplaying community. Even if it were to be to new servers only, or some such, as long as they were RP servers allowing inbound transfers only from other RP servers (though doing it with -existing- servers would be far better, as new servers are more likely to appeal to the non-RPers as well as the RPers).

Ah, here's your proposed solution. While I still believe that overall realm population would be a major concern to consider when offering transfers to roleplaying realms -- some of which are already burgeoning quite nicely by themselves -- your idea is not entirely without merit. Unfortunately, it is not my place to accept such a proposition, but I would strongly encourage you to consider posting on our Suggestions Forum regarding this concept. Contrary to popular belief, that forum is read by our Community and Development teams, and the constructive feedback there is taken into consideration for future changes in design and functionality. I sincerely wish you the best in making your opinions known, Caelarion.

Q u o t e:
I realize that, as I've already said, some of what I've said/asked fits more as suggestions than as CS issues. I appreciate, in advance, your overlooking it if doing so does mildly transgress. I'm bringing these grievances and questions here in the hope of actual input, and information on appealing to a higher authority if necessary. If the subject matter does garner your interest, please feel free to actually look for Argider's thread in the suggestion forums to get an idea of the number of roleplayers who are looking for solutions, and some of the wonderful ideas those players have to offer.

I recognised a number of your points as being more fitting for the Suggestions Forum -- or perhaps even the General Discussion, where other players could offer their insights -- but I felt that it would be unfair to ostensibly ignore such a well-worded post about a topic in which I have some interest. Even if a "higher authority" is not something I can provide, I hope the input I've offered has helped to clarify our stance on the enforcement of roleplaying, or at least shown the other side of the coin. I did peruse Argider's thread, out of curiosity, and fully understand the concerns expressed by the roleplaying community; I still feel that our current reactive method of enforcement allows for a necessary balance of effective deterrence and logistical feasibility, despite many players' apparent dissatisfaction with it, but I can assure you that your points aren't lost on me.

Q u o t e:
Thanks again for your time in reading! (EDIT: I just re-read what I wrote. I hope no Blues say "TL;DR"... )

And thank you again for your eloquence, as well as your composure; there is little in this world that is truly "TL;DR" for me. Good day, friend. ;)

(As a note, I'm currently out-of-office. I'll be back this afternoon to address any rebuttals, however, and look forward to your response.)

Orlyia

#46 - June 4, 2008, 2:14 p.m.

Q u o t e:
Leave the horse alone. It's dead.

Oh my dear lord.

Necromancy is bad kids! It'll rot your teeth!