50 Deaths in BG = Worth No Honor?

Q u o t e:
From the current PTR notes:



I tried to think of a way to say this that doesn't sound completely flippant, but in perfect seriousness--why am I being penalized because my opponent is really bad at the game?

It's not a joke post, I just don't get it. What exactly is this trying to prevent? I thought the whole point of the PvP honor system, in all its incarnations, was to reward us for killing other players...

We're removing the diminishing returns on kills completely, but at the same time, there still needs to be some limitation to simply killing the same target/people over and over. This isn't an extreme limit by any means. Camping someone and killing them repeatedly though, while possible, is going to have a limitation.

If you're camping and killing someone over 50 times, does that mean you're actually a good PvPer?

Q u o t e:


The patch notes seem to indicate that once a person dies 50 times in a BG, regardless of who kills them, they're no longer worth honor in that BG. Is that not, in fact, the correct reading?

If it's 50 kills by you personally...yeah, never, ever going to be an issue. Thanks for the reply.

Edit- If you die 50 times in a battleground, no matter who killed you, you are no longer worth honor for the remainder of the battleground.

Q u o t e:
What is the point of having "Honor"
when there is no risk of losing it?

People who have little to risk tend to always want more risk. What I mean by that is, if you are a player that has more time to invest that losses aren't too painful for you, you have less to risk than someone that maybe has less time and it would hurt more. Then you get into the issue of some classes being a bit more squishy than others so that when they put themselves out there and take risks on the battlefield, they are the ones the most punished (such as support classes) when they die.

This way, taking risks, has more of a reward than a penalty associated with it, and we want people to get in there and get in the fight.

Also, keep in mind, there is a penalty still associated with dying in that it takes time away from you, it takes your buffs, and in AV, it's going to take away from your resources for your team. It's to your benefit not to be killed by the enemy.

Q u o t e:


Neth, can you please get a confirmation from the developers that it is indeed the new behavior? The patch notes say:



The way it is written in the patch notes, it seems like the honor stops after 50 kills of a player regardless of who killed him/her.

I can do a double-check, just to make sure. It's early and I'm still infusing with caffeine, so I'll make sure I haven't misspoken.

We'll see if we can update the patch note a bit to make it a bit more clear.

Edit- If you die 50 times, no matter who kills you, you are no longer worth honor for the rest of the battleground. This has been clarified and confirmed.

Q u o t e:


The place with the biggest problem with this is WSG, particularly in the 19 bracket. The twinked side gets the flag and refuses to cap it because they want to farm HKs, wasting the other team's time.

It's a shame for new players since it's the first battleground they see. It could really turn people off to pvp.

While I like this idea for the other battlegrounds - AV, AB, EOTS - I don't see this as a good solution for what currently goes on in WSG.

The best way to deal with it in WSG is to not res - run away as a ghost from that graveyard resser.

Keep in mind we have also implemented changes to WSG for the flag carrier to take additional damage the longer they hold on to that flag. Even if you do a lot of passing the flag, it's going to take extra coordination and the chance of the other side slipping in, killing people between swaps and getting it back to their base is still pretty good. We are definitely keeping an eye on these changes and their effects in WSG, however, so please feel free to try it on on the test realm and let us know how it's going for you.

Q u o t e:


but what about the really dominant teams, that can get your entire team in the gy, and their entire team is camping it, they can go on indefinitely.

and that happens more than i'ld like to admit on emberstorm at 70.

now they will be gaining lots of honor for it (especially considering wsg's 10 person team has less total people to share the honor with, each kill being worth more than in other bg's).

I've been there myself on both sides. In those cases, you need to find a way to pull it out of yourselves to get past it, through it, and over it. Usually they tend to break up pretty quickly if you start working on getting everyone to coordinate their resurrecting and who is going to do what when you come out of it.

Q u o t e:
Seriously my healbot priest has 5.5k hp and 0 resillience and I find it hard to die more than 10-15 times in a bg. Don't see the limit being a problem.

May I say... Ouch. You need more stam! I'm low on the resilience end myself, but agree, I don't die nearly enough to be even close to 50 deaths in a match.

Q u o t e:


I suppose that makes sense. Thanks for the reply.
Never played AV, but I'm curious as to why in WSG and AB the people at the top of the scoreboard is the person with the most kills/ least deaths, and not the person scoring/returning flags and capping/defending nodes which I would consider taking more of a risk and much more "honorable"

It depends on how you have your sorting done. The default just goes by kills/deaths ratio (I believe). You can sort by Damage done, Healing done, Killing Blows, or Honor points.

The person with the most killing blows, may not be the person gaining the most honor. It just depends on the situation, if they started the game from the beginning, if they've taken part in other goals, etc.

Q u o t e:


Wheee... I'm allways top healer now I can be on top! Thanks for that info. Now can you have them factor in damage negated through dispels/purges etc. in some way pretty please? hahaha

Post any additional information you'd like to have in there in the Suggestion forum. You never know if something might show up.

Ok. I have some clarifications for everyone and will go back to correct my other statements. I did a double-check to make sure I had my information correct.

It is in fact 50 kills per battleground for that player. So if you die 50 times no matter who killed you, you are no longer worth honor.

I apologize for any confusion on this. We'll see if we can make this clearer in the notes as well.

Q u o t e:


That's OK, confusion happens.

At least I was reading the patch notes correctly and am not just going crazy.

You're not, but I may be. No, wait. I already did. Nevermind. :)

I'm glad we could all work through it and get it cleared up.

Q u o t e:


My question is: does this count for DEATHS, or just for being KILLED?

IE, I'm at 40 deaths (I suck, lol), and get MC'd off of a cliff. is my death counter now at 41?

Thanks for the input, and the presence on this!

You would need to be killed for that much. Not die due to err.. user induced death. :)