Request Official response on why Prots....

#1 - March 12, 2012, 7:35 a.m.

...On why prots should not be viable in PvP. After loads of hate posts from DPS specs on how "tank specs dont belong in PvP" i have yet to ever see even one official post (let alone an official post with a logical reason in it) why "tank specs" have no place in PvP; or dont deserve to PvP; or should stay out of PvP... yet the clear a steady march of patches/nerfs/changes seem to suggest that is the exact thinking at Blizz headquarters. And i dont see much in MoP to contradict my assumption.

I burned out on PvE content way back in BC. i dont really care how many times you repackage "killing a dragon" it was already pretty good in vanilla. Fresh endgame content is for the new players, lets be honest. so PvP is really all i have this game for and i believe its the same for "most" (not all) long term players.

Plz, can we finally have an official post on the reasoning behind this steady pressure to remove tank specs from PvP? I would of course want to debate any logic presented but we (prot specs who like pvp) need at least to understand what the original thinking is before we can even have a discussion on whether its sound logic or not. Give us a chance to defend our real and vital roles to somebody other than massively biased DPS specs, trolling the boards.

Thanks in advance :)

P.S. came extremely close to dropping this game after 6 years last month when the latest prot nerf came thru 4.3.2. i actually let my account lapse to closed but decided to add 60days a bit ago just to see if this is worth saving... make it worth saving plz. there is a reason subs are down from peak even with loads of new content (hint:its not the recession).

EDIT: hey! i found the button to edit my title, hopefully its within rules now :)

UPDATE: For the new arrivals to this thread that read the first page, then skip to the end and comment about "tank damage was too high" Plz read more than one page. First of all, that has been said already and second of all, NO TANKS ARE ASKING FOR DAMAGE in this thread. But there is a strong consensus on what role and abilities tanks should bring to alll PvP in future patches and MoP (protection for the team). We appreciate the few official responses on this thread but still hope for the "insight" response on Blizzard's intentions for tanks long term in PvP. And REALLY hope that Devs will at least see some of the ideas here and how beneficial tanks could be to PvP in general with a skill set that crosses over to PvE perfectly, seamlessly :)

Daxxarri

Community Manager

#8 - March 13, 2012, 2:52 a.m.

03/12/2012 01:51 AMPosted by Practical
I have not heard of anything at all about removing specs in PVP.

Ugh, dat thread title.

Anyway, we don't have a problem with players choosing to PvP as tank specs, but if they do, then we want them to be effective because of their defensive and control abilities, not because of their damage-dealing potential. It's intentional that, overall, tanks have to sacrifice some DPS in order to make up for their other strengths.

For comparison's sake, we don't think it would be cool if healing specs did as much or more damage than DPS specs in PvP, and the same is true for tanks. In Battlegrounds, tanks often do have a role, whether it’s running flags, defending a node or tanking NPCs. It is much harder to provide tanks a role in Arenas since the strategy ultimately revolves around focusing down enemy players. Nobody wants to try to focus down a tank, and tanks typically can’t contribute as much to focusing down enemy targets.

I would of course want to debate any logic presented

I'm not so much for debates, because design isn't about rhetorical prowess. It's about making the game the best it can be for all players, not simply those who can make a compelling case on the forums. Because of how personal (even emotional) the experience of playing a character is, sometimes it's hard to see over the fence into someone else's yard. We have to keep an eye on the whole neighborhood.

As a side note, please avoid calling for blue explanations in your thread titles. I made an exception posting in this this thread because I felt that your assertion (that we're deliberately kicking tanks out of PvP) needed a response. Please feel free to continue constructively expressing your perspectives in the future though.

Daxxarri

Community Manager

#68 - March 13, 2012, 6:22 p.m.

I think you guys are reading far too much into what Daxxarri meant.

"Plz, can we finally have an official post on the reasoning behind this steady pressure to remove tank specs from PvP? I would of course want to debate any logic presented"

He does not want to debate the assumption that Blizzard is trying to remove tanks from PvP. He did not say anything about not listening to our constructive criticism on how we think a tank would work in various PvP settings, which is what we should be discussing right now.

Correct. Let me see if I can present this in a way that makes sense.

It's not too useful to be "convinced"; to read attempts to de-construct a basic design rationale we might have, which was what the OP was suggesting he'd like to do (though based on one of his later posts, I believe he mentioned that 'debate' was perhaps not the best word for the idea he wanted to get across). Anyway, such discussions nearly always devolve into rhetorical tricks, and increasingly irrelevant minutiae. They are also, as I intimated from my original post, heavily mired in the highly individualized perspective that comes from playing and loving one or two classes, and are often lacking the satellite view that's so necessary.

That satellite perspective has its own drawbacks though, which is why we are always interested in the constructive feedback that the community provides. It's a fine distinction, but it's an important one. So, to sum up:

It's generally more productive to relate your experiences and desires, than it is to construct an argument or lobby in favor of a change you believe should occur.

Edit: I'd also prefer not to continue this meta-discussion if possible since staying on-topic is more useful. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't misunderstood.