Bots galore! =(

01/23/2012 12:03 PMPosted by Irishscout

Im curious to know how blizzard prevents botting.....

There are many methods of detection in place that work to find those using "botting" programs, as well as the activities that indicate possible automation of play. Those accounts are actions accordingly when found. Sometimes individually and sometimes in a wave.

Please understand that it takes time to figure these exploitative programs out, to develop methods of detection and essentially "break" the program so that it doesn't work with the game or can be found when it is used.

The trick is there are many programs out there that do their best to remain undetected. Those who design these programs are very good at what they do. Such programs also rarely remain the same once found. As soon as we figure one out, they try to figure out how we found it and develop a workaround. It is a constant struggle.

Unfortunately, from an outside perspective it can look like nothing is done, especially given the limited exposure one may have to the ebb and flow of the "botting" cycle. This cycle will often be marked by an increasing numbers of "bots" in Battlegrounds that ramps up over several months. As time goes on, hastened now when properly reported, the ability to detect or break specific programs will be found and many of those accounts will be actioned. After that, matches will once more consist primarily of players who are controlling their own character, for a time. Once the next generation of "botting" methods are developed, it will start over again.

The most effective tool that we have for helping to combat this type of behavior is the non-participation /afk report feature.

http://us.battle.net/support/en/article/battleground-non-participation-account-action

While immediate results may not be seen using this feature, since the methods used to "bot" in a battleground can include a way to remove the non-participation debuff, the data on those reports is gathered by the system and is considered with respect to any future reports.

Now i could have very well missed it, but I did not see the word "ban" anywhere in there. Wouldn't the threat of losing your account have a bigger impact over losing honor points or items?

Much depends on the severity of the violation. The word "bot" is often thrown around but it isn't nearly as simply. There are different methods employed in such cases and the type of exploitation is considered and actioned accordingly.

01/23/2012 04:34 PMPosted by Midi

I'm sorry Vrak, but sadly I've never seen any results of using that feature and I fear that's part of the problem.

Depending on how often it is used by those in your Battleground, I don't doubt that is true. I can say when the report afk feature is used properly, by multiple people, those reports help to generate a clearer picture of the activities taking place and help to properly address this type of behavior.

01/23/2012 04:34 PMPosted by Midi

I can understand why there is no short term results from this... But from a players PoV, there is no long term results for our efforts, either.

That depends on ones understanding of the situation. Not using a reporting feature implemented for just this reason will absolutely limit both short and long term results. Consistent reporting of that type of behavior will result in the appropriate actions being taken based on those violations. This will eventually create the correct perception that such behavior is not welcomed and that if you try it you may have "earned" items removed and/or your account suspended or even closed.

Does that mean that no one will ever try to cheat? No, of course not, but one is less likely to attempt something like that if the risk of being caught is high.

01/23/2012 05:38 PMPosted by Rastok

My guess is that you (blizzard) don't really tell people that you figured something out either, right? That would be the smart thing IMO then u can nail people/botting software with impunity and they don't really know that you know for a while O.o

No, we often provide very little information on what was found, only that something was. As I said, those who create these programs are fairly good at what they do and their goal is to remain undetected. Letting them know what we found, or which program (in the case of multiple programs used) is not a good idea. The longer we can keep them guessing the better. :)

01/23/2012 08:26 PMPosted by Reactable

The thing is every time one of you replies to this type of thread it's the same thing. Just do a ban wave already before it gets more out of control.

The thing is, Reactable, it also seems that when one of us takes the time to provide what little clarification we can on how these processes work, there is often an indication that none of it was actually reviewed.

What is your criteria for applying such penalties? If I saw you in a Battleground and reported you as a bot, should you have your account closed? I don't have any definitive proof but if I watched you for a brief period of time, could you look like you were a bot? Should your accounts status be determined by such arbitrary information?

If you were suspended or had your account closed for botting, how do you prove that you weren't? When the evidence is basically a "I saw him, he looked like a bot" you have no factual information to stand on.

So, how would you prove that the person was botting?

If the registered user on the account contacted you, could someone else look at the evidence you had and confirm your original findings? How about in a week or a month?

What about those "bots" that no one reports?

01/23/2012 08:26 PMPosted by Reactable

It just seems like Blizzard doesn't care about this game anymore.

That is an extremely easy thing to say but the definition of that statement is often "This is how I think it should be, so you obviously don't care about the game/your customers/the ozone, etc..".

We do care, a great deal actually, many times more so than many of our players. That is often irrelevant beyond the shiny moment where we do something that someone agrees with/directly benefits them.

It's easy to sit back and say that X should be done and how ridiculous it is that Y isn't happening but those outside have very little insight into our programs, systems, policies and procedures and most specifically the results we already have using them.

We understand that seeing such behavior in the game is extremely frustrating. Few understand that better than we do. However, we have the policies we do in place for a reason, we have the procedures we follow for a reason. The development of them as well as any changes and additions made over the years weren't come to on a whim. While things may not move as quickly as any of us would like, that doesn't mean we don't care about this game or those who play it.

01/23/2012 10:41 PMPosted by Reactable

One thing I've seen is the massive lawsuits your company has brought on companies to get them to stop making certain bots.

One thing you may not understand is that such tactics are not always possible. Law is based a great deal on jurisdiction.

01/23/2012 10:41 PMPosted by Reactable

Another method you use is patches to break bots. The authors just fix them like addons so they work again for months and months while warden just derps along.

Again, there seems to be a lack of understanding involved here. While we would love to update our systems to detect any new and altered programs, that information isn't magically delivered to us. Work needs to go into studying what is done, how it works and how to detect it.

01/24/2012 06:09 AMPosted by Stupefy

It was quite depressing to read, but the truth is the truth - bots will always have a noticeable say in battlegrounds (and other parts of this game) while the struggle continues to remove them as they keep coming back stronger.

I'd have to disagree. If reported consistently, via the /afk Report system, they can be addressed to a degree that will create a noticeable impact. Each report, while it may not result in the immediate expulsion or penalization of the person reported, does gather information. That information is used in conjunction with additional reports generated by reports made in other matches which can result in the penalizing of the person verified to be not participating.

While there will always be those who try to cheat, we can make it less common and fair more trouble than it is worth by using the tools available already. Our teams continue to monitor the systems in place and work on making additional improvements.

01/24/2012 01:07 PMPosted by Simoneeddie

TL;DR : PvP is a grind and blizz needs to revamp the PvP system.

As already stated in this thread, Simoneeddie, if you would like to provide feedback on any of the current systems that are in-game, please post in the appropriate forum. In this case you'd want to post constructively in the PvP Battleground Discussion forum.

I think we've gotten as much out of this thread as we can. Thank you all for your participation.