Specific Feedback on Totem of Wrath

#0 - Oct. 23, 2006, 7:03 a.m.
Blizzard Post
As you can probably see by browsing the Shaman forums, one of the least popular talents that will be in the expansion is the Totem of Wrath talent in tier 9 of the Elemental tree. The purpose of this thread is to allow people to share their feedback on the skill in one organized thread that will be easy to reference. Please try to follow this simple format when posting:

1) Bring up any potential problems with Totem of Wrath that you can see, or why you don’t think it is worthy of being a 41 point talent.

2) Briefly discuss why those issues truly hurt the talent (i.e, just saying that it “is worse than Moonkin aura” means very little, as Shamans are a different class. Elemental Shamans having “Elemental Fury” doesn’t ruin “Vengeance” for Druids).

3) If you want, share any suggestions you have to improve the talent. This can include minor tweaks, major fixes, or a completely different talent in its place.

Feel free to copy and paste any feedback you have given on this spell earlier, too. Just keep things constructive and specific, and Blizzard will have to pay attention to us!



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To start things off, I’ll provide my feedback on the skill using the format from above.

1) Problems with Totem of Wrath:

-Totem of Wrath is a fire totem, and when you tell raids that you have this ability, they wont be happy with you using any other fire totem. Any points you invest into Call of Fire and Improved Fire Nova Totem will have their value taken away while raiding, and you also lose the additional dps of your Searing Totem. According to this thread, ____, the Shaman will actually *lose* dps by having Totem of Wrath out instead of Searing Totem.

-While this is subjective, Totem of Wrath largely lacks a “fun factor.” Many classes are receiving new, more “active” skills that help redefine their playstyles when they invest 41 points into a tree. Skills like Mangle, Crusader Strike, Fel Guard, Unstable Affliction, and the various summon spells add fun new tricks to each class’s arsenal that give the class more depth. By contrast, Totem of Wrath is a pretty passive buff, and one that takes away from a skill you were using already (any other fire totem). When compared to almost every other class, the Shaman elemental tree is probably the only talent tree that doesn’t add a new “move.” But just because a skill is “passive,” it doesn’t meant that it’s bad. But Totem of Wrath’s passive benefit isn’t anything unique, it’s just more of what you can already get.

-Totem of Wrath, from what I’ve seen, just isn’t powerful enough of a talent to pick up, especially in comparison to Nature’s Swiftness, a 21 point talent. While soloing, Nature’s Swiftness will be more useful, because Totem of Wrath will not outshine Searing Totem. In PvP, Nature’s Swiftness will be more useful, simply because of what totems are (a 5hp totem isn’t something you can rely on for more than a few seconds when playing against human controlled opponents). In small, 5 man groups, you will not often be in a group of nothing but offensive casters, so Totem of Wrath can’t be at its full potential. This leaves Totem of Wrath to be useful in high end raids only, where its effect on the raid’s overall dps is only a bit higher than what a Searing Totem can already provide.

2) The problem with this talent not being clearly better than Nature’s Swiftness is that there will be that much less of an incentive to spec heavily into the Elemental tree. Although a 41 point talent shouldn’t be required to be successful at your class, it should at least be enough to offset the sacrifice of losing a 21 point talent. If everyone decides that Totem of Wrath isn’t much better than Nature’s Swiftness, 40/0/21 cookie cutter builds will blossom. Variety is a good thing, everyone being the same is not. That’s why the talent system exists in the first place.

Totem of Wrath taking up your Fire Totem slot is detrimental because it makes it less of an upgrade to the Elemental Shaman as far as dps output is concerned. Most talents don’t really simultaneously detract from what they’re adding to, and while Totem of Wrath helps your spell dps, it also limits it.

As for Totem of Wrath not being fun… well, that’s subjective, and I can’t back it up : /

3) Suggestions:

a) For a minor tweak, Totem of Wrath could be changed into being an Earth Totem. Elemental Shamans already have Mana Spring totem that they frequently use as their Water Totem in groups, and Tranquil Air and Wrath of Air already compete for the Air Totem slot. The Earth Totem, however, offers no real buff to an Elemental Shaman’s spell dps, or anyone else’s spell dps. A simple shift of Totem Element can allow the Shaman to keep using his fire totems for dps while making use of an otherwise poorly utilized totem spot. Even as an Earth Totem, Totem of Wrath might be a little weak, but it’d be a step forward in the right direction.

b) For a more major change… it could be reverted back to its “bursty” form. Although it was widely seen as being too weak numerically (10% spell crit bonus for a limited time might not accomplish much), the concept itself wasn’t bad. With Bloodlust already in the game, Shamans could be a “burst buffer” with a reworked Totem of Wrath to give caster groups needed damage during key points in fights. It would also help differentiate the Shaman buff from the similar Moonkin Aura buff, helping to give it a more unique feel. Maybe a 15 or 20% crit bonus for the old version’s duration, or some different effect that would provide a significant but short spell casting bonus.

c) Here are some other ideas to completely replace Totem of Wrath with as a new 41 point talent for Elemental.

1) “Magma Surge.” 1.5 second casting time, 170 mana, 300 damage (stats based on rank obtained at level 50, later ranks could be purchased). Throws a surge of lava at your target, causing fire damage. This spell causes a low amount of threat.

This talent could add a lot more flavor and possibilities to the Shaman class. The first thing to not is that this would be a fire based attack, giving Elemental Shamans something they can use against mobs that are heavily resistant to nature. Also, two problems that many Shamans have with the Elemental tree is that it doesn’t have enough staying power and that there isn’t enough threat reduction. Instead of having to shut down casting entirely when low on mana, a Shaman could use this instead. Blizzard plans on nerfing the scaling of lower ranked spells with +spell damage gear in the expansion (correct me if I’m wrong here), so just downranking Lightning Bolts wouldn’t give the same effect as this.

2) “Spirit of the Storm,” passive aura effect, 45 yard range. Whenever the Shaman achieves a critical hit with the Lightning Bolt or Chain Lightning spells, the mana cost and casting time of the next spell cast by each group member will be decreased by 20%

This talent would not only provide a significant boost to the Shaman’s own dps and mana efficiency, it would also give Elemental Shamans a reason to be taken by raids. Its effect will also be very unique (a mini casting speed and mana efficiency buff rolled into one) when compared to what other classes provide.


The numbers of the above suggestions could always be adjusted, but they’re just ideas.


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Show Blizzard what you think!



Some General Opinions From This Thread

1) The totem system itself is still flawed in the Expansion, so Totem of Wrath will gain many problems already existing with other totems (not mobile, very easy to kill in PvP, a fairly small radius that forces your party to be tightly bunched), making it less appealing.

2) Many disagree with my original post in that they'd like to have a Fire Totem that buffs their group's casting dps instead of being a just a flat dps addition, but that the numbers on the current totem are too weak to justify picking it up.

3) People generally want some buff provided by an Elemental Shaman that requires him to be casting for it to happen so raids want them to cast instead of just heal in raids. The 41 point talent could be a good place to implement something along these lines.
#23 - Oct. 23, 2006, 10:09 p.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:
1. Blue doesnt read the shaman forums anymore, and
2. even if you do get a blue response it will be something along the lines of:
3. "this post should really be in the suggestions forums".



:(




Rumors of our lack of reading these forums are greatly exaggerated. :)
#84 - Oct. 23, 2006, 11:52 p.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:
Hey, nice to see you Neth. :) Glad to see that someone is at least reading our forums.

I am curious though... what are your thoughts on what we've posted here? If it's outside of your realm of responsibilities, could you see about asking someone in here to respond to our concerns, or maybe get us a timeframe for when something like that could happen?

Ty ty


As I've posted before in another forum, we're all making the rounds and gathering information and feedback. We will continue to do so as much as possible. We have many things that we are all working on so if it's quiet for a bit it's often because we are working on those things or waiting for information/feedback to bring to you all.

*Edit- Threads like these tend to make it very easy for us to find direct information to look at thus why my response.
#145 - Oct. 25, 2006, 7:23 a.m.
Blizzard Post
I wanted to follow-up briefly to let people know that the team is looking at the Elemental tree (among other things) for the Shaman and ARE working on it.

I am going to give it to you straight that there are changes coming to the Enhancement tree due to the fact that we've found it to be doing a bit TOO much damage. In fact the power output is a bit on the scary side. I realize people will get upset about this but I would urge people to take a moment and take in all the changes as they come and hopefully test them when they have the opportunity. I would also caution people to remember that there will continue to be changes that you will love and not love both due to the nature of balancing.

I by no means want to take emphasis off of the fact that the Elemental tree is also being worked on as the positive side of things but want to maintain a balance of expectation. Please expect things to change based on testing and on feedback. We ultimately want to do what we can for the health and advancement of each individual class as well as for the game as a whole.

Your constructive feedback and thoughts on changes as they occur are great tools for us to use in continuing to do our work and I want to thank those of you that have been so diligently putting together the informative posts and feedback that I have been seeing.