#0 - Oct. 22, 2006, 2:27 p.m.
Here is a description of the "rage normalization" on beta.
Q u o t e:(1. Drysc, http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=34926496&postId=360903634&sid=1#125 )
The normalization is based around an internal number of how much rage a warrior could be expected to normally generate at each given level per DPS. Although that number is steadily increasing with each level it isn’t a linear curve as it paces an average modified by gear progression. In general if you’re geared well and doing more normal white damage than that internal number then it’s going to pull the rage numbers back a bit towards the norm, and on the opposite end if you’re geared poorly you would actually be seeing a boost trying to catch you up.
Here are some descriptions of how the change will effect us:
Q u o t e:(2. Kalgan, http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=30217883&postId=308809347&sid=1#34 )
In practical terms, it means if you have a high-end epic 2h weapon you'll generate a point or two less rage on normal hits, about 3 less on a crit in the same case.
Q u o t e:(3. Kalgan, http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=30217883&postId=308809481&sid=1#50)
If by "less than epic" you mean "blue", I'd say you won't notice the difference at all. If you mean green gear, you'll probably do very slightly better.
Doesn't sound too bad, right?
Well, here is data from beta, with the dashed curves being what we would have with "unnormalized" rage generation.
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2959/3ragesjx3.jpg
(info from Krandoth: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=34926496&sid=1 ,
Hrett: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=35775928&postId=356830507&sid=1#0 ,
and Deimos: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=64336487&sid=1&pageNo=8
edit: some more nice data here from razerwind: post#335 of this thread
and a little realistic testing with an IBS from triella: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=46950326&sid=1
)
As you can see, rage generation is about cut in half. The "expected number" referred to in [1], above, is where the two sets of lines cross. i.e., about 65 dps.
So, anyone doing more than 65 dps ( (weapon dps + AP/14)*(1+crit) ) at level 60 will be nerfed, and everyone doing less will be buffed.
For reference, here is a profile of someone with 70 dps, who will have his rage generation nerfed:
http://ctprofiles.net/4225116
Is that guy really so overpowered?
Here is another example of a warrior, who will take about a 40% reduction in rage generation overall when he levels to 61 (or possibly, when he doesn't even level but the expansion merely comes out).
http://ctprofiles.net/3672258
This second warrior is basically the one that everyone laughs at in BGs, and then 1-shots with their trinket frostbolts. My experience is that his rage generation (about 6 rage per second) is barely adequate for pvp (ie, it's not usually too frustrating to play), and not adequate for competitive pve dps. It is certainly not too high. And his rage generation will be lowered by 40%?
He won't lose "3 points" [2] off a crit, he'll lose about 15 (e.g. enraged 1200 crit). It is not "barely noticable" [3].
So, what's the deal? Do you really mean to tell me that this warrior: http://ctprofiles.net/4225116
is too powerful and must be nerfed?
Here are some observations about rage generation from the beta forum:
Q u o t e:
The 2h rage generation though is sucking wind like i never saw it before. Take in mind too if i get a miss or dodge, my generation sucks even more. I think my dps fell by like 30% with the normalization.
Q u o t e:
im trying fury 2h, since i have had the most experience with it. 41 points into fury atm. it sucks. it really does. i dont think i have gotten over 30 rage in a single fight, which is poor. im limited to 1 yellow damage. i cant heroic strike, or anything. i have to horde rage up for the BT. vrey very weak if you ask me.
Q u o t e:
I just got my Honed Voidaxe and respecced to Arms. Oh my God, it is bad. I have been out of rage so much tonight, never able to pummel, intercept, etc. I hate it.
Q u o t e:
2 hand arms = meh, whereas on live it's extremely effective. In PvP I got absolutely rocked, but definitely did better against higher armor targets.
Q u o t e:
Its awful. I love charging and critting with dark edge and not having enough for a mortal strike. I love being unable to consistantly put out an MS and a WW everytime they're on cooldown with the best gear in the game. The new ER isn't enough. This is broken. But perhaps thats what they want. Warriors were absolute garbage before raid gear got out of control. And from an enjoyment standpoint at least (haven't been able to benchmark my dps in a BC raid) they're absolute garbage now. I feel like im waiting for seal of command to proc but it just never does. I can't use any abilities and just sit there praying my attacks don't get parried or missed or hell even dodged because the rage generation is such that the chances of me having 5 rage for an overpower if I don't skip ww/ms sometimes are slim indeed.
Q u o t e:
Alcaras said it felt like fighting with one hand tied behind your back: I'll go one further. When I'm fighting mobs, it feels like I'm actually fighting my action bar. When I'm tanking, it feels like I'm fighting my party instead of the mobs. There's a certain, oh, immediacy missing.
Q u o t e:
I just got Teerok's Quill. 93.3 DPS weapon. I'm level 65. It is on par with level 70 weapons; in fact, I -won- a level 70 Axe (Crow Wing Reaper) off the boss that completed the quest, and it is 93 DPS as well. That is a pretty clear indicator that my polearm is far above the weapon DPS that I am expected to have at 65, and my rage generation is STILL horrendous. Screw grinding in Berserker stance; I never have enough rage to WW and MS every cooldown. I barely have enough Rage to MS every cooldown, unless I'm getting torn apart by 3+ mobs and use Zerker Rage to advantage. This is horrible.
( http://beta.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=560400 )
There may be a couple options:
1. The rage formula on beta is bugged.
2. Blizzard thinks that any warrior who generates more rage than he would naked and unarmed is too powerful, and that the warrior profiled in this link:
http://ctprofiles.net/4225116
is "geared well and doing more normal white damage than that internal number" [1].
3. They don't know exactly where they want to set the crossover point, so they've just nerfed the hell out of it to start with so they can seem beneficient by giving a little back later.
4. I've missed something.
It seems like choice 1, based on those quotes from blue posters linked above. Since those quotes are in no way consistent with reality on beta, and they wouldn't just outright lie to us.
Right?
(This is sort of a continuation / summary of Krandoth's thread. http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=34926496&sid=1 )
edit- interestingly, since the new method is based off of each hit giving the weapon speed in rage (+plus other stuff related to damage), dual wield is effectively "normalized" somewhere higher than a 2H is.
edit- this DW thing has now been looked into. DW is in fact "normalized" twice as high as 2H.
For details: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=44754974&sid=1 post 31
and
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=45026674&sid=1
edit-
Flurry no longer provides a 30% increase in rage generation while active, though it still does provide some increase (like 10-20%, depending). http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=50725960&sid=1
edit: kalgan strikes back: post 145
return of the cangoc: post 187, continued in post 268
also, Colds response in post 325 is worth reading.
edit: Formula has been changed, nerfing DW down to the 2H level but buffing the 2H a little bit through extra rage on crits. It still blows imo, but what can you do. Post 381 for details.
