The Arena System: What we know!

#0 - Oct. 11, 2006, 4:10 a.m.

So there have been a few posts recently about the new Arena System coming in the TBC. But there all over the place and I feel that they should all be put in to one huge thread. I took the time to gather up most of the questions I could find on the General Forum that have blue answers and put them here in hopes that it will help people who are looking for answers.

Q: An arena team is like a guild? You have to get a charter and everything and you're not allowed to play with other people?

A:Just like a guild you can leave at any time and join a different one or create your own.
~Drysc (Link: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=32338352&pageNo=1&sid=1#1)

Q: But [if you leave a team] will that reset your ranking?

A: The team is ranked, not the individual. If you leave you are potentially forfeiting your rewards.

Clarified: You would be forfeiting any potential future arena points by leaving. You don't lose access to any rewards, and you don't lose the arena points your character has gained by leaving a team.
~Drysc (Link: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=32338352&sid=1&pageNo=1#12)

Q: So if you join a high ranked team do you immediately get access to the top arena awards?

A: If you contribute to their wins, sure but you won't get something just for joining. What happens is that each week each team member earns arena points based on the team rating and their contribution. If you jump into a team you don't automatically get points as you haven't contributed anything. There is no "this rating has access to these rewards", the rewards are priced and can be purchased using arena points similar to currency.
~Drysc (Link: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=32338352&sid=1&pageNo=2#20)

Q: Does this mean that a rank 1 person, if they join a rank 10 guild, they will gain ranking FASTER than other people? because their guild will have already a higher ranking and this person is just catching up to them? i.e 1 week hes rank 1, the next week hes rank 10 cause he participated in 30% of the guilds games that week and thats the rank his new guild made?

A: I think you're comparing the current honor ranking system with the arena team rating system a bit too much. The team as a whole gains a rating, it isn't dependent upon who is in the team, where they were before or other factors. You gain arena points, and thus rewards, based on your teams rating. If you can get into the top end arena teams, contribute to continued wins, then you will reap the benefits. Keep in mind that you're going to have to be pulling your weight to stay at the top and earn those rewards.
~Drysc (link: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=32338352&sid=1&pageNo=2#28)

Q: A better question is who controls the team.

A: There is a team captain, similar to a guild leader who has control over certain aspectes of the team, such as who is in it.

Q: As for the 30% rule: if some in the grp are addicted and play non-stop, even though it doesnt give good points, are the rest at risk of earning 0 points since even 30% is too much?

A: I'm not sure how they would be playing without the rest of the team. The benchwarmers are really going to usually be friends that have no interest in the arena system, but will jump in if you need them to. Any one interested in actually competing in the arena is likely to be on a roster as a main player.

Q: This is going to be a tough change... there are MANY players who dont have a friends list, dont do well in guilds with officers, mandatory raids/specs, etc... many of them have gotten by thru pvping every day, solo queueing for BGs

A: There's still going to be an honor system and new rewards there for anyone that doesn't want to participate in an arena team. I suspect most players interested in PvP at all will participate in both.
~Drysc (link: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=32338352&sid=1&pageNo=2#32)

Q: wow, that sucks a LOT for the casual player who only plays 2-3 nights per week.

A: Find other players with your same schedule or agree to only play your arena games those particular nights. I would imagine that three nights a week would be more than enough to get in your required 10 games a week keeping in mind that these are small team games that are generally going to last a few minutes.
~Drysc (link: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=32338352&sid=1&pageNo=2#36)

Q: Can you answer why we need X starters and X benches minimum to form an XvX charter? I'd really prefer to just have 5 people on my 5v5 team and only play with them.

A: You don't need any benchwarmers to start a team, but they're there should you feel you need them at any point. The benchwarmer spots are there so you don't have to kick out a team member just to get in your last game for the week, or whatever the need may be.
~Drysc (link: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=32338352&sid=1&pageNo=2#37)

Q:How does that work. i have to create a group with 3 other ppl just to queue up for the 2v2.
Thats just messed up. plz tell me i got it wrong.

A: If you don't have a team charter to gain ranking in the Arena, you can still play unrated games.

Joining the Arena solo, without being in an Arena team, will simply queue you into the preferred Arena match. However, these are 'exhibition' matches and do not award Arena points.
~Tseric (link: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=32338163&pageNo=1&sid=1#1)

Q: (this was a long post, Ill sum it up) Is the new Arena System going to be a grind?

A: Think of it this way, there really isn't a 'grind' to be attributed to Arenas because you can only do so many matches at a time. Matches can be fairly short or fairly long depending on the skill of the participants.

Either way though, you won't be in the Arenas for hours on end. It's not possible to do in a ladder system. You'll go in, you'll play your match, you'll win or lose and you'll go on to the next match. It's a straight on competition to see who can make it to the top of the ladder so the only 'grind' feeling you could have is if you really don't care about the ladder or making it to the top.

If you play around in the non-ranked Arena, then it's just for fun and there's no 'grind' associated with it unless you are there practicing with your team and your team captain is a slave-driver bent on world domination. :)
~Nethaera (link: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=32188164&pageNo=1&sid=1#2)

Q: So I have a quick question about the new honor system. Someone (blue that is) mentioned that you loot "honor" now and use that to purchase weapons; instead of money or whatever.

Do you actually have to 'loot' the honor, or will it continue to be shared with your group and just given to you automatically?

A: No you won't have to actually loot it. You will get it the same as now it will just be on a slightly different scale now that you will be able to 'spend' it on items.

*Edit- There are no 1v1 matches being planned.
Yes, you will need to have preset teams. A team of 2 will need 2 regulars and 2 alternates to create a team. The same will be for 4, 4 regulars and 4 alternates etc. There will be no PUGS in the Arena since there is a ladder system in place.
~Nethaera (link: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=32188164&sid=1&pageNo=1#14)

(not sure where the question was for this but here it is anyway)
There are only so many matches that can be played at a time. It's all based on what the ladder can allow for the match-ups. ( I can't recall the exact number right now off the top of my head but I'll try to find that for people later.) No one team should be able to ratchet up the matches they can play vs other teams.

I'll see about the team gathering up some questions and doing what we can to answer them for people since it seems we keep having a lo tof the same ones come up.
~Nethaera (link: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=32188164&sid=1&pageNo=3#40)

(Comment on PVP rewards)
You're correct except there will be new rewards up to level 70 available from the honor system. The arena will supply only level 70 gear, and be on-par with high end dungeon items but obviously geared towards PvP.

We're definitely continuing to support and develop the battleground system and offering rewards so that players can still strive for rewards through them. Of course the honor system isn't specific to battlegrounds and outdoor PvP will still play a role in gaining honor points.
~Drysc (link: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=32277664&pageNo=1&sid=1#3)

Hopefully this helps anyone with questions. Maybe we can try and keep all our Arena questions here in this thread so as to make it easyer on the blues trying to respond :).

Drysc

#3 - Oct. 11, 2006, 4:35 a.m.

Thanks for consolidating it. Almost everything has been discussed before in some amount, a lot of which was on the older forums and may now be lost. I'd be happy to field any follow up questions I'm able to.

Drysc

#12 - Oct. 11, 2006, 4:53 a.m.

Q u o t e:
Can I join a 2v2 team a 3v3 team and a 5v5 team?

If not... i think you are building a system that Ill only play about an hour a week... which seems like a waste of time.

You can join one team of each size, meaning you can be on a roster for all three team sizes if you so choose. Each team is created using a separate roster, and each team is rated on a separate rating board.

It's true you may only play ranked games for each of those teams for an hour a week if you can knock out all 10 games in that amount of time, but think about the non-ranked games and the time you may be investing on practicing and getting your strategies and teamwork down.

I'm not sure how you can say it's a waste of time when there are rewards involved; rewards that are matching top-end PvE rewards.

Drysc

#20 - Oct. 11, 2006, 5:03 a.m.

Q u o t e:
Hmm, now im a bit confused. So lets say I want to make a team for the arena. Do I HAVE to pick the bracket I want my team to play in? That is, can I have a 10 man team and still do the 2v2, the 3v3, and so on?

You have to choose the bracket you want the team you're creating to play in. So you'll pick a roster, let's say 3v3, and sign up the required two people (aside from yourself) to make the team.

To clarify some conflicting information, you will only need the minimum number of players to fill out a team size to create the team. Meaning you only need 2 players to create a 2v2 team, 3 players to create a 3v3 team, and 5 players to create a 5v5 team. The benchwarmer spots are optional at all times.

Drysc

#29 - Oct. 11, 2006, 5:07 a.m.

You must be level 70 to compete in ranked arena games and obtain the arena rewards. Any arena games played before level 70 or while not on a team will put you into a skirmish game that's just for fun and has no associated ratings or rewards.

Drysc

#30 - Oct. 11, 2006, 5:08 a.m.

Q u o t e:

Could you elaborate on the bracket system you mention here?
Or did you mean brackets as in 2v2 3v3 or 5v5?

Brackets as in 2v2, 3v3, and 5v5. :)

Drysc

#102 - Oct. 11, 2006, 9:25 a.m.

Q u o t e:
I have a question regarding the ranking and system. What % of the ladder will have access to the level 70 awards? Let's say 1 team is 7-3 for 4 weeks straight but there is many teams 9-1 8-2 etc.. Does the 7-3 team eventually accumulate enough points to buy the same items that the top team does? If it's a no, how do you think the lower people will ever compete with the higher tiered players with the big gear? Sure it may take the lower teams a little bit longer to get the gear that the top people have, but i think that's fair and makes the overall competition better.

Everyone has access to the rewards, what will differentiate teams is how quickly they can acquire arena points. Let's say you're in the middle somewhere; you're still going to get arena points and save them until you can purchase something. Some teams may get the rewards slower, some faster. There's definitely a goal for everyone to shoot for, some may just take a bit longer than others.

Q u o t e:
Is it possible to play double, triple or five time the same class?

Yes.

Nethaera

#142 - Oct. 11, 2006, 5:04 p.m.

Q u o t e:

contradictory? can someone clarify please.
and there hasnt been an answer to this question yet,
can you be in a 2v2 team and a 3v3 team and a 5v5 team?

Not contradictory. Just that if you want to take into account that someone may not make a match, you will need to have benchwarmers added to the team to take their place. For a 2 person team you will need 4 people total unless you want to risk it.

I believe you should be able to join a team for each bracket however, I will double check on that to make sure. Don't take it as the gospel yet.

Nethaera

#145 - Oct. 11, 2006, 5:16 p.m.

No, you will not need to leave your guild. The arena team is a seperate entity.

Nethaera

#159 - Oct. 11, 2006, 5:47 p.m.

Q u o t e:
If that is true, GREAT! But, I'm 99% certain I have only read that the system for pairing based on gear is for the normal BGs/Honor system. Infact, I remember them saying it would -not- be used in the Arena system.

Edit: I'll reserch the comment on bluetracker. It should probably be added to the OPs minifaq. /heh

Arenas will not match gear but match based on ranking. Gear matching will be for the battlegrounds when it is implemented.

Nethaera

#209 - Oct. 11, 2006, 8:41 p.m.

Q u o t e:

I think Neth said something kind of misleading, but one of the other CMs seemed to make it clear that you would only NEED the 2, 3, or 5 regulars to form a team. Benchwarmers are optional.

It didn't come out as clear as I had liked. "Need" implies that it might be necessary but doesn't preclude it from being optional in this case. Recommended probably would have been a better word choice.

You can choose to only have two people on a team and not add benchwarmers but if you don't have anyone to fill the spot should something happen then I would assume you'd end up forfeiting the match rather than playing it out with a benchwarmer you can call up. I think you would also lose out on a strategic benefit of having other people you can call on either based on their class choice or if for some reason your main friend is having just one of those 'off' nights or has taken ill.

I hope that clarifies a little bit.

Kalgan

#273 - Oct. 12, 2006, 5:23 a.m.

Q u o t e:
Huge Issue:

Will the players that play 2v2,3v3 and 5v5 be obtaining more points then someone who soly focuses on 5v5's?

No, while you can be on one team of each type, at the end of each week you'll only gain points from the team that earned the most points that week.

However, note that given equal rating, 5v5 teams earn more points per week than 3v3, which earn more than 2v2.

Kalgan

#276 - Oct. 12, 2006, 5:32 a.m.

Q u o t e:

So if my 2v2 team gets 200 points, and my 3v3 team gets 201 points, i only get 201 points for that week?

And if i win 10 games out of 10 for 3v3, and someone only wins 9 games out of 10 for 5v5, they will still have a chance of getting more points than me? (Depending of course on who they beat and who i beat, as the points you get are determined by the rank of your enemies, i believe)

Yes. This is intended to reflect the fact that It's not as hard to find one other excellent teammate for a 2 on 2 team as it is to find at least 4 other excellent PvP teammates for a successful 5v5 team.

Kalgan

#277 - Oct. 12, 2006, 5:33 a.m.

Q u o t e:

this needs clarification. most total TEAM points or most points that you personally get? Because it seems the the entire team gets points, which are then equally divided between the active players.

Would not make sense if it's the most TEAM points, since this would always favor the 5v5, and additionally you personally might have earned more that week from 3v3, and still get stuck with your 5v5 results.

Finally is the 5v5 = more points due to the fact there's more ppl to distribute amongst (obvious) or just in general more points for all 5v5 players because... hmm.. its harder and requires more teamwork etc?

Most points that you personally get.

To clarify with an example:

- Let's say you're on three teams (one of each format).
- Let's say that at the end of the week, each of the teams you're on ends at a 1500 rating.
- Assume that you were an active player on each team (played in at least 30% of the team's battles)

Results at the end of the week:
- Each active player on the 5v5 team would be eligible to gain 408 arena points
- Each active player on the 3v3 team would be eligible to gain 244 arena points
- Each active player on the 2v2 team would be eligible to gain 163 arena points

So, you'd gain 408 points that week.

Kalgan

#286 - Oct. 12, 2006, 6:19 a.m.

Q u o t e:

@Kalgan - thanks for the fast replies!

Question - how do you get 5 lots of 408 out of 1500? :) (obviously there is some formula other than just simple multiplication, but elaboration would be nice ^_^)

To the quote: i believe that it will be where, if its a 5man team which has 5 benchwarmers(all active members), and their team earns 1000 points that week, they will all get like 100 points each, and if the 5man team that is 5only, and they get 1000 points, they will get 200 points each, correct?

Edit - To hazzard a guess, id say its going to be a 60-69 bracket, and 70 alone, much like 50-59 and 60 alone now.

Note: in the example I provided above the 1500 refers to the team's rating. The number of points an active player gets from a team is derived from the rating value plotted on a logistic curve.

Also, one of the points I was trying to illustrate above is that active players on that 5v5 team will gain 408 points each. This is the case regardless of whether there are 10 total active players on that team (the max possible), or merely 5 active players (the practical min).

We don't want to "split" points among active players, as that would encourage you to not have alternates on the team, and we don't want to pressure you to minmax the system by always having the min number of players for a team.

Kalgan

#288 - Oct. 12, 2006, 6:26 a.m.

Q u o t e:

I haven't been able to find a definite answer to this question yet, maybe you can help me out. Do arena points last between seasons?

Yes, they do. Although, there is a limit to how many arena points you can stockpile.

Kalgan

#315 - Oct. 12, 2006, 5:40 p.m.

Q u o t e:

Okay, I spent a LOT of time writing a reply, and as I clicked post I got logged out and my post was lost, so I will make it shorter and less convincing ><

Right now your example has 2v2 brackets as earning 40 percent as much points as 5v5 brackets for the same standing. That means that a 5v5 bracket can more or less play HALF as well and get the same results. I really don't think you mean this.

I think you meant to exaggerate the difference for effect, and you wouldn't be so reckless as to design the arena such that the only bracket that matters to anybody that even wants to pretend to be competitive and earn rewards (and this is the arena, where everybody more or less wants to) will be the 5v5 bracket...

Bear in mind that the arena point return for your team's rating ins't linear. So to throw out another example...

- Each active player on a 5v5 team with a 1500 rating would receive 408 arena points at the end of the week.

- Each active player on a 3v3 team with a 2000 rating would receive 632 arena points at the end of the week (as compared to 244 at a 1500 rating).

That being said, we are deliberately trying to encourage the most competitive players to participate in the 5v5 battles, as we feel considerably more comfortable with the potential class balance in this environment. 2v2 has far more potential for certain class combinations to be heavily favored, and as such we're being conservative about how strongly we reward the smaller format sizes.

Kalgan

#316 - Oct. 12, 2006, 5:41 p.m.

Q u o t e:
Kalgan, will the default UI keep track of and display (updated at least daily) the number of games your team has played and the number of games you have participated in?

Absolutely.

Kalgan

#317 - Oct. 12, 2006, 5:45 p.m.

Q u o t e:
Sorry if this has been answered, i did read all the blue posts though.

What i'd like is clarification on this magic number which has been thrown around a lot: the number '10'. One post referred to teams having records of 8-2, 9-1, 7-3, and so on. Does this mean that you only get to play 10 games per week per team? Or is it simply a matter of you only need to play 10 games?
If you can play more than 10 per week, will all the games count toward your rating? If so, will winning 50-0 make you any better than a team who won 10-0? (assume for a moment that equal ranked teams were fought).

I'm so very confused at this number '10'. It's only one more than nine, but one less than eleven. /cry

It means your team only needs to fight 10 battles per week to be eligible for points. You can fight more if you so choose. However, due to the way the rating system works (and the way points are derived from rating), teams with high ratings are (in theory) increasingly likely to play only the minimum required number of battles.

Kalgan

#320 - Oct. 12, 2006, 6:27 p.m.

Q u o t e:

assuming that getting a certain rating (eg getting your team to #25 on the ladder) is going to be about the same difficulty in all brackets... the original poster's concern still stands.

-yes 630 points for 2000 rating in 3v3.. but what do you get at 2000 rating for 5v5? 1057 sound reasonable?

if [points/effort spent]are higher in the 5v5 bracket - thats where the action is going to be. Just like during wsg weekend the honor farming groups are not running AB for fun, they are in *wsg*... where the money is, so to speak.

We'll see how it pans out... unless its easier to rank higher (assuming same skill/gear) in the lower brackets, the 5v5 will give more honor each week. and i dont know many WoW pvpers that willingly do stuff that will get them their rank/rep/loots twice as slowly as a readily available alternative.

You're certainly welcome to argue that the difference is too significant. However, if the point values are equal, you'd see the opposite effect (2v2 would be the way to go), and I'd much prefer to err on the side of pushing players toward 5v5 than the opposite.