I'm trying to cope with lost time and effort.

#1 - Oct. 12, 2006, 7:29 p.m.

I guess Rallok (the Original Poster) decided to delete his post and start a new one. I will not let him. Here is his post:

I'm finding it really hard to cope with the fact that the gear I have right now will be completely replaced by level 70 blue gear. I've spent the last year of my life raiding, and dispite my guild's laid-back, 3 day a week schedule, we've worked hard, we were in the first 10 guilds on our server to down Nef, we were in Naxx within a few weeks of it opening, yada yada, etcetera etcetera.

But here's the thing, beyond "My uber gear is going to help me level faster! Hyaaa!" All of me and my guildie's forward progress for the last year has nothing to show for it. No system in place to reward content progression, save bragging rights.

As far as I'm concerned, everyone I know is starting all over again as if we were the first bunch of nublets to hit 60 way back in april of 2005. To be perfectly frank, that just strait up sucks.

So here's my proposal. There should be secondary character advancement points. You kill a boss for the first time, you get to allocate points, you gain a pvp rank for the first time, you allocate points, "Hey, you and your team got first place in this semester's arena ladder system, well guess what?" You get to allocate points. "You got rank 1 with your team in the arena ladder system again?!?! Well here's some points you pvp-machine!"

Now I know what your forum moderators are thinking: "This is a thread for the suggestion forums!" No, its not, because that would imply that I have any confidence that my suggestion will ever get read, heard, discussed or considered. I want this in general because I want the general populace to give thier thoughts and opinions, and discuss the benefiets of a system like this being implimented. On that note, I used the word "implimented", it has 4 sylables, and is tough to spell correctly, so I'm obviously a very smart person, and my opinions should be taken seriously.

"Okay, you sexy, but completely insane psychopath, what are these "points" and what do they do?" Easy. The points are stats. You and your rag-tag guild of basement dwelling stoner's and moma's boys managed to down MajorDomo Executus for the first time? Well here's a stat point; agility, strength, intellect, spirit(I know, I'm hillarious) spend it any way you want. Kel'Thuzad? Well here's 4 points, congratulations. Why? Because items aren't enough. Items should be an extension of your character, not the fiber that holds it together. One rufee in your morning glory dew and -BAM- you're stripped nekkid and left dead, okay not really, but you get what I mean. The point is, there's nothing to show for boss kills, short of the gear, which will eventually become replaced.

Yes, I get it, "The gear you got from MC helped you beat Nefarian, which GOT you to Kel'Thuzad." But for what? More gear to kill more bosses, so the level cap can be raised again, more bosses added untill you're level 100 with a green one-handed sword that out DPS's your Ashkandi. I worked my ass off for our first Nef kill, and now that TBC is comming, I look back and see the all my progress was for not.

All I'm saying is the bosses we kill and the pvp accomplishments we overcome should reward long-term benefiets. Yes, it will widen the gap between casuals and hardcore players, but isn't that how it should be? "That guy has +25 more agility then I do, thats OP" Well, he killed Kel'Thuzad AND held rank 4 with his team on the ladder system, you didn't, sorry about your luck. The system we have is a limited reward system, and to be honest I'm going to miss my gear setup, its a good gear setup, I spent a long, long time getting it, and come TBC its gone for good, replaced by blues. My time spent is erased.

Think about PvP. The gear is static, you complete a goal, you get your gear, you stop pvp'ing. Why? You have your reward, the incentive is gone. With my extremely easy system, you have your incentive, its right there, stay on top of the ladder system for a few semesters and you have yourself some very nice gear, backed up with some slaughterful stats, your team is unbeatable, holy crap! Don't mess with XxXSephirothninjaXxX, that guy will dice your tuna into sushi!

I have a good friend, my old guild leader, he ran the guild, the guild website, tracked DKP, handled guild recruiting, etc. etc. the whole nine yards. He loved this game, he's a pvp addict, and a good guy. One day we log in and he had looked at the new items, all these new pretty shiny new items, all with thier own bosses and dungeons to run and kill for loot. He quit playing shortly after because he realized there IS no long term reward for raiding, except the prospect of more raiding. We need a better, more long term benefeits for raiding and killing bosses, because what we have now just doesn't cut it.

It's the nature of the beast.

Eyonix

#96 - Oct. 12, 2006, 8:52 p.m.

MMORPGs are about continued progression and World of Warcraft is no different in that regard. We don't want anyone to feel as though their efforts obtaining items were in vain, however, we don't want to prevent players from evolving either. The gear you spent time gathering will help you in Outlands by giving you an edge in leveling and obtaining better equipment. The fact is, once the Burning Crusade launches and players (all players regardless of gear) have an opportunity to improve their character further through leveling and itemization, it will be both exciting and new.

Imagine an item you spent forever trying to obtain in current World of Warcraft, such as the Scarlet Boots from the Monestary, or a particular peice of your tier 1 armor set. I'm sure every level 60 whose spent time focusing on progressing their character though itemization can think of an example of an item that took forever to gather that they no longer wear because they've since found an upgrade.

My point is in current WoW, when you've finally upgraded an item, regardless of the time invested, were you upset that your previous efforts were in vain, or were you simply excited to get a new item that had better stats? I know I personally worked hard on some of my tier 1 gear back when that was the best option available for my character. When I finally replaced those peices, I could care less about my previous time investment. I was happy to have something better than before.

You can't "win" World of Warcraft, and if your goal is to spend time getting the best gear in the game and remain at the top, you'll be disappointed because we're constantly going to introduce more powerful equipment and unless you continue to work towards the progression of your character, a particular patch or expansion will leave you looking a little outdated.

Eyonix

#137 - Oct. 12, 2006, 9:15 p.m.

Q u o t e:

Eyonix, of all people i thought you would understand this. I'm not talking about gear, man, you're letting all these troll idiots lean your idea of what exsactly I'm talking about to the wrong side of the road. Gear is the prize, the representation of accomplishment, the prize is replaceable. I want the reward to go to the character, not the wardrobe.

In this game, gear is an aspect of character progression. There are rewards which go straight to your character, which occurs as you gain levels. In the Burning Crusade, you'll be allowed to gain ten additional levels beyond what's currently possible. There are plenty of other aspects of progression that stick to your character, such as reputation, professions, and the exploration of zones. These may not interest you, but they are there for those who wish to make goals of completion.

The Burning Crusade will open the doors of character progression from every angle. What's not exciting about being able to improve upon every aspect of your character, from every angle possible?

Eyonix

#157 - Oct. 12, 2006, 9:27 p.m.

Q u o t e:

Eyo, lad, uh not once did you mention the word "fun" in this appologia. This distresses me. Are you implying that your employer's product is really just all about timesink for virtual goods? Are you saying people do not play to have fun?

Had you asked the guy "during all that time, did you have fun?" I would have confidence in you. Now, I am kinda feeling empty. Is WoW just about the items?

If so who needs it. I can money-chase in real life and have actual items that I can hold and touch and use.

We develop video game software which serves as entertainment for a large community. Fun should already be implied. Additionally, beyond the fact that my direct intent was to help players better understand that regardless of how they feel now, they'll ultimately be pleased at the upcoming opportunity to progress their character, in my statement I used the following words

exciting
opportunity
excited
happy

I'm sorry that I did not come out and use the adjective "fun" in my reply, but I genunienly don't think I have to break a matter down to one basic word in order to make a larger point.