Where are the RAID PUG's?

We specifically intend for the 4.0 raids to be puggable now that Firelands is out. Grabbing some tier 11 by way of Justice, quest rewards, plus across the board difficulty nerfs should really be enough to get them going.

The patch has only been out a day or so though. I think it'll probably take a little bit before people really get it into their heads that they should be pugging the previous tier because it's not too hard to be successful. It's just getting people used to the various encounters and mechanics.

Maybe people are waiting for the holiday weekend? If nothing else, leading one yourself is always an option. I think we'd agree that we need some better ways to get pug raids together considering we intend to follow the "New Raid is Hard, old Tier is Puggable" format from here on.

06/30/2011 02:17 PMPosted by Sariisa

Still unsure what that means regarding the final raid (i.e. Deathwing). Do pugs not get to see him until the next expansion is released? (Not saying whether that's a good thing or not, but personally I enjoyed getting to Arthas on some of my alts without spending near as much time as I did on my main.)

In ICC we had a stacking raid buff over time which gradually made the content easier. Not saying we’ll do that exact thing again but the philosophy was around even then that everyone who wants to can eventually see the content, but it’s going to take very organized groups (which typically means raiding guilds) to see the encounters first.

06/30/2011 02:17 PMPosted by Overture

So casuals will constantly be a tier behind for the rest of the life of this game? If that is what is actually coming out of your mouth I'll save myself the time and unsub now. What a piss poor vision for your game. There are normal and heroic versions of raids for a reason. That heroic difficulty was implemented so that the two segments of the population (casual and hardcore) would both have something to do. You are now bifurcating the raiding population AGAIN, by telling casuals that they have to run around in the left overs.

Trying to label all of our players as “casual puggers” vs.” hardcore raiders” is ridiculously simplistic. Among raiders there is an enormous diversity of players. There are those who will raid virtually every night when new content is out, to guilds that raid once a week (and even then will cancel raid nights fairly commonly). If you must try to label raiders, you’d be closer to the Blizzard model if you said normal mode is for organized raids, heroic mode is for more hardcore organized raids, and the previous tier of content (and Baradin Hold) is targeted for pick-up groups. Also consider that even within a raid zone we try to design easier bosses (usually near the front) and more challenging ones (usually at the end) which can help blur those lines and offer smoother transitions for each category.

Overall, we think you’ll have a better experience playing World of Warcraft if you play with friends, either existing or those you meet in game. WoW, while much more solo friendly than most older MMO games, is still intended as a multiplayer game. We provide features like Dungeon Finder for when playing with friends isn’t possible, and as we said above, we’d like to offer more features like that.

06/30/2011 05:19 PMPosted by Fayul

Also consider that even within a raid zone we try to design easier bosses (usually near the front) and more challenging ones (usually at the end) which can help blur those lines and offer smoother transitions for each category.

Ok can i ask one question here..... If this is the case, what is up with omnitron.... that fight requires more raid awareness then all of icc, or at least the 10/12 i saw of it

We try to design easier bosses up front.

I think some arguments could be made we didn't try hard enough in Firelands, and they could be right. :X

06/30/2011 05:30 PMPosted by Keylogger

What you don't understand is that difficulty is not the problem with pugging right now. Many casual players raided T11 and went fairly far. The problem with pugging since the beginning of expansion is shared lockout and guild rep. Guild rep is the major one because you only earn rep for running with the guild. So many people would run with their guild even on their alts to earn them rep and get the rewards linked to it on those characters. This is what reduces the player pool for people to pug. Mains are not going to go back to T11 because quite frankly everyone is burnt out on t11 and they won't go back until they are given good reason to do so.

The idea of having separate lockouts for organized groups vs. pick-up groups is an intriguing one. Raid lockouts is something we debate internally a lot. The challenge is that it’s difficult to provide flexibility to players who want it without the extra content becoming mandatory for many raiders.

Specifically, some players really enjoyed being able to raid ICC with 10 friends and then pug the 25-player version of ICC. But unless we structure the loot model carefully, many people feel like they must do both every week in order to maximize epics, reputation, valor, legendary components and other types of loot per week. It will take some guilds all of their raid nights just to make progress in Firelands. Asking them to also go back and do Blackwing Descent and Bastion of Twilight can turn a casual raid schedule into a second job.

In any case, we have sleeves, and things are up them.

06/30/2011 07:42 PMPosted by Glennwulf

i can't believe you even gave Overture the time of day....

It was a pity reply.

;)