#0 - Sept. 13, 2010, 9:35 p.m.
OBSERVATIONS (PvE):
1. The Concept of our new damage dealing rotation is good. - Holy power is great, overall there is a lot of new depth to dealing damage. As many other threads have pointed out there are some kinks, but I'm under the impression that sort of thing will get ironed out for PvE rotations and all that. Overall, it's challenging and rewarding.
2. The damage is terribly low and too Templar's Verdict dependent. - This is understandable, it is the PTR, and we do not have a lot of our mastery rating nor do we have Inquisition yet. Both of which will of course bring our dps up. Yet to be fair, a lot of other specs don't have a lot of their mastery and yet are putting out some pretty crazy numbers. I'm doing 4-5k on Heroic target dummy, while others are 15k. Also if your TV is dodged, parried, misses, etc it is beyond sad panda.
OBSERVATIONS (PvP):
I'm going to try and do this as objectively as possible with out getting frustrated lol. But in all honesty, Ret is pretty much broken and unplayable in PvP atm lol. It is seriously that bad. Going to try and explain why and give some suggestions on what could really help it.
1.) The damage is terribly terribly low and too Templar's verdict dependent lol. - This is not quite as understandable as in PvE. Inquisition is currently dispellable on Beta, meaning most Rets wont have it up and can not afford to spec into Inquiry of Faith anyways let alone would they if Inquisition remains dispellable. We also have an extremely difficult time maintaining any melee uptime to be able to use TV effectively as is.
2.) WoG selfhealing is awful and Selfless Healer offhealing is neither rewarding or fun. - Not really sure what else to say about it lol. WoG at three Holy Power is barely better than a FoL crit on live. It does almost nothing to keep you alive when you are being focused, it eliminates your only move that hits reasonably hard (TV). The damage bonus from SH isn't enticing at all, it feels awkward using WoG, and I can't even explain how just "not fun" it is. I remember GC saying something like "now if we could just get some Ret pallies, not all, but some to like Selfless Healer" which is understandable, but I have honestly not seen or talked to anyone who likes it.
3. We are beyond squishy, like...it's really bad. - We lost Sacred Shield, Cleanse, HoF stun removal, heal over time effects, instant Flash of Lights, Salv glyph, and gained Interrupt, Long Arm, WoG, and Divine Prot glyph. The tradeoff is so lopsided, it's not even funny, like it's not lol. We die...soooo fast. WoG does nothing, as in you don't even notice it and we have no mitigation. None lol. I can't see this staying this way b/c I can't even communicate how bad it is. Ret was one of the squishiest arena classes on live, yet "too tanky in BGs" b/c of our self-sustainability, yet on the PTR we are unrivaled in how fast we die. + plate to other armor and HP issues, don't see this changing at 85 and reports are that it hasn't.
- Here are some short examples (yes I realize damage not balanced, and especially hunter dmg is out of control but still Ret has almost NO mitigation):
Hunter duel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWmCB1gZR_s&feature=youtube_gdata
Ele Sham duel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N009grFAK08&feature=youtube_gdata
- Apologize for quality but they are just supposed to be quick examples.
4. Our melee uptime is really bad, borderline non-existent a lot of times. - Long Arm duration is short, which is understandable it b/c of Judgement cooldown. BUT, I can still get countered by the 'w' key, let alone snares. HoF is dispelled almost instantly. Yes the mana cost on dispels is higher, but players have the mana and it's way easier to get HoF off than before. LA is also dispellable. SoJ requires melee range, and if I even get the chance to get there it isn't a snare but makes opponents at 100% speed. I find that 90% of the time I can't maintain any sort of melee range even in 1v1 situations, let alone BGs.
5. I'm not having any fun in PvP, whatsoever. - On live it's really frustrating as Ret to run up against a good caster or a few casters in BGs. It's pretty irritating yet in PTR there is absolutely no chance. It's like demoralizing really lol. I'm full wrathful tier 2, and I am getting owned by pretty much anything with a cast bar no matter what gear, not just a little bit owned. But dominated. It's not even that much better against melee (no HoF stun removal). Although I don't see a lot of melee outside of DKs b/c they seemed to be betting owned by the ranged lol.
6. I realize this is PTR. - I know that damage isn't balanced yet, but these are similar reports being seen on Beta, and the damage alone doesn't change the rest of the utility issues.
SUGGESTIONS:
Now want to make this clear: I am not saying ALL of these should just be thrown in, or that doing so would automatically be balanced. These are just suggestions and ideas to brainstorm where to go from here. I would also love feedback, and other ideas to be posted as well. I also hope just to give the devs some food for thought.
1. Long Arm of the Law needs to stack with PoJ or receive 15% speed bonus, and be non-dispellable. - The non-dispellable part is mandatory. It just has to be. We are so incredibly dominated by dispels right now that at least our 4 sec mini sprint here needs to not get hit by them. Also, again like I said before snares, or even just the W key still counters 45% speed pretty hard.
2. Judgement needs to proc the seal effect with Seal of Justice ONLY. - It's understandable not having the other seals work like this, but this would go a long way to helping us get into melee range and to add some much needed damage onto SoJ overall.
3. Seal of Justice, Crusader Strike, and Judgement all need damage buffs.
- For PvE and PvP sake, this needs to happen. Too much is focused on TV alone and our damage is pitiful, if SoJ is to be the PvP seal it still needs more to make it attractive as well.
4. SoJ needs to be a real snare, or we need another MAJOR piece of offensive utility. - The current SoJ, HoF, and LA is just not going to work. We can't get any time on target. I'd hate to lose the uniqueness of SoJ if possible, but a snare is probably the easiest fix for balance. If not, then something MAJOR somewhere else has to be done. Mobility being our weakness is fine, but right now we have low mobility, low uptime, a high set up build that requires uptime, extremely poor self healing and self-defense as another weakness, and I'm not even sure what our strength is? It doesn't seem to make any sense and I can definitely tell you it isn't working.
5. Long Arm of the Law needs to have no range requirement. - I can't see it working any other way. It's going to be 100% mod dependent and still incredibly frustrating and basically useless at certain times if this doesn't happen.
6.. We don't need "defensive utility" but we sure as heck need some "self-defense." - I have a few suggestions on how to do this, and I'll list them here:
a. Repentance and Rebuke need to share the same talent, and Repentance needs to be 40 sec cd.
- This is a much needed change so that we can use HoJ and Rep together more often, and so that we free up a talent point to add in some other much needed abilities for Ret lower in the tree.
b. When HoF is used on an ally the Paladin receives the effects of HoF at 50% or 75% duration. - We are pretty much borked w/o HoF and I can't even imagine arena situations where our teammates need it.
c. HoF gains either dispel protection, or when opponent dispels/steals it their run speed is reduced by 45% (or some amount) when stolen/dispelled on Paladin only. This isn't my suggestion, I saw Rihard suggest it and at first I was opposed because I believed HoF was too powerful a spell to not have a counter. I still believe this when casted on other players, BUT not so when on the Ret himself. So I added that suggestion to it, and I think it's more than necessary with the current set up.
d. WoG applies a damage reduction shield when casted on Paladin only based on Holy Power. - I don't know how I feel about this overall, but I'm just trying to think of a way to make WoG not suck so much. This also adds to the SH talent as being "selfless" lol. No shield for allies, but on Ret it is needed.
e. Some other defensive CD outside of Bubble and Divine Prot. - Something is needed, that's for sure. I'd love to hear suggestions.
f. HoF needs to have stun removal back for Ret - I don't see why this went away, pretty needed and at least separated Ret from Holy.
THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX SUGGESTIONS: - These are kind of off the wall, outside of snare, gap closer, MS offensive utility suggestions in an attempt to give Ret some sort of desirability and viability in PvP.
1. Exorcism (or some other move) 'burns' a portion of mana, focus, rage, or energy. - Very unique idea, and I think a lacking spec like Ret would be deserving.
2. Consecration increases the GCD on all spells and abilities by 3 seconds while in it's area of effect. - High mana cost, long cd.
