Old PvP titles

As you noted in your edit, the original titles are not going to be taken away from players who already have them. The Feats of Strength associated with the old titles will be changed slightly to more clearly distinguish them from the Achievements associated with the returning titles.

Here's a brief rundown of how the rated Battleground titles will function in Cataclysm, and how the original titles can be earned by players who did not have a chance to participate in the original ranking system:

As of now, the first ranks -- Private for Alliance and Scout for Horde -- are earned when a player reaches a Battleground rating of 1100. The ranks increase every 100 rating points, up to Grand Marshal/High Warlord at 2400 rating. Titles earned through the new system are yours to keep and will not be wiped with each season.

In addition, all-new titles and Achievements will be added for top performers. Hero of the Alliance and Hero of the Horde will be awarded to players who finish a season in the top .5% of the rated Battleground ladder. These titles will be wiped at the end of each new season, however, a new Achievement will be awarded to players who earn this title each season.

Let’s see how many seasons in a row you can stay in the top .5%! ;)

Q u o t e:

Thanks for the clarification, Zarhym!

I am curious as to how one can distinguish those who have earned the PvP title back in vanilla WoW from those who have earned it through the new rated BG ladder. Is checking the Feat of Strength the only way to do this?

Also, this may be a stretch, but: will there be any new titles for Arenas, or will it be the same as it is currently?

Yes, the titles will be display the same, so there's no way of visually distinguishing between someone who earned the title under the old system from someone who earned it in the new system.

Back when we first took these titles out, we did say that they would one day return when we were able to work out a better system for awarding them. We made it clear to players that we wanted a new way to obtain these titles. This is that new way. :)

Q u o t e:


Exercise your right to change your mind. Frankly, you guys have changed your mind about an awful lot of things before. A smiley face on this one ain't going to make some of the people in this thread any happier about the situation.

We did change our minds when we decided to let players who earned these titles under the old system keep them at all. It's a pretty fair compromise.

Q u o t e:
Hey Zar,

I noticed you were careful to point out Hero of the A/H will be end-of-season rewards, but you didn't use the same wording with the Rank titles. Can we take this to mean that the Rank titles (Scout through HW, Private through GM) will be re-calculated/updated each week, à la Honor System 1.0?

E.g., if I have 1100 this week and am a Private, and I climb to 2400, next week I'll be a Grand Marshal (and will never lose access to that title)?

The Battleground ranks are awarded for completing the associated Achievements. So just like all other Achievements, you will unlock the rank the moment you earn the Achievement. Say you're Horde and you win a rated Battleground match that puts your rating at 1900. You'll immediately unlock the Achievement and be able to sport the Centurion title from then on.

Q u o t e:
I can't wait until they make another achievement in the game give you the "Kingslayer" or "Hand of A'dal" title. Then the PvE players would have an absolute fit. Retroactively changing a previous reward and how it is achieved is fine until it happens to you.

Those titles are not very comparable to Battleground titles. We understand that players with these titles have come to recognize them as as a way of saying, "yea, I did the Battleground ranking grind back in vanilla WoW." I can relate to that as well, as I have Lieutenant Commander on one of my characters. But, there's no compelling gameplay reason to keep these titles unattainable, making them a statement that you earned something that can no longer be earned. That is what Feats of Strength are for.

These titles were made unattainable simply because the old ranking system was something we felt needed to change, but we hadn't yet developed a better system for measuring skill in Battlegrounds without forcing players into an incredible grind. We decided we would pull the titles from the game until we could create such a system that also allowed players to "climb the ranks" so to speak. We're deep in the development of a system we feel delivers in this regard -- one that rewards skill, team work, and sound strategy -- and we've been able to alleviate the issue of an extreme time commitment, as well as the mandate to stick with the same group of players throughout (as in Arena teams).

While we were originally planning on removing the old titles from characters who already had them, we recognized that those titles were legitimately earned through the previous Battleground ranking system. It didn't feel right to punish players who dedicated a lot of time to work through the system we designed. And now that we have a new system that involves competitive play and ladder functionality for Battlegrounds, we're excited to once again make these Battleground titles available to everyone.

Q u o t e:
Blizzard,

If you don't mind me asking, can we at least get a reason behind not adding something as simple as Veteran to the people who had these titles before? I don't see the logic in not doing this - it would make everybody happy. If you're set on not adding something like that, there must be a valid reason. Please let us know.

There's no gameplay justification for giving someone who earned a Battleground title under the original ranking system an altered title from someone who earns a Battleground title under the new ranking system. It still signifies your rank in Battlegrounds; the system for distributing those ranks simply got redesigned.

You're right, it would make a lot of people happy to add something to the title to make it visibly distinguishable from the titles being brought back. I'm confident it wouldn't make everyone happy though. On a broader scale, not everyone is going to be happy no matter the route we take simply because these titles have become something they were never intended to become -- bragging rights that you've attained the unobtainable. They've always been meant to reward good Battleground play and will be used for this purpose once again.

I, for one, do not want to be Veteran Lieutenant Commander. :)

Q u o t e:


That last thing, is that something you say as a player or something you say as part of the blizzard staff?
Is that your personal opinion weighting more than that of the other players ?

My personal opinion was not at all factored into the design decisions made. I shared my opinion as a player with you in response to a claim that "just doing X will make everyone happy." It won't. It's a new system, but we're keeping consistent in our design goals of wanting to bring back the Battleground ranks with an improved way of awarding them.

Q u o t e:

How are these titles not comparable to Battleground titles? Let's compare Hand of A'dal to a Battleground Title.

Are they both unique and now unobtainable? Yes.

Which was more difficult to obtain? The higher Battleground titles were much more difficult to obtain and were highly contested even on RP realms of all places.

So why aren't they comparable? Because one is obtained from PvE and the other PvP? I hope that's not why and I'm guessing that's not what you mean but you really didn't explain what you did mean. I'm not seeing the distinct differences here.

The two different scenarios simply aren't comparable. When PvE mounts or titles are removed, it's because the content can be trivialized as character level or power increases. The new Battleground system in no ways trivializes the difficulty of earning Battleground titles, even if the system for measuring that difficulty has changed.