Is ninja looting really against Blizz RULES!

I'm going to begin my contribution to this discussion by quoting our official stance with respect to the looting practice described by Xsyringe:

Link: http://us.blizzard.com/support/article/17761

Q u o t e:
What is Blizzard Entertainment's stance on "ninja looting" within the World of Warcraft?

"Ninja looting" is a common term used within many massively-multiplayer online role-playing games (MMORPGs) to describe the act of looting items from corpses, chests, and the game environment without permission.

This term predates World of Warcraft by many years, and was originally coined in virtual worlds that did not possess the same looting mechanics that are available in-game today. Because of how loot dropped in these other worlds, frequently in the form of free-for-all chests on the ground, it was possible for players to loot items they did not personally help generate. Stealing loot in this manner often required speed and subtlety, so the title "loot ninja" was born.

The World of Warcraft looting system was specifically designed so this sort of item theft cannot occur. In order for a player to loot an item, he or she must contribute to the corresponding kill or be a part of the group responsible for it. Players who do not meet these requirements will be ineligible for any loot that drops. As a result, players are only able to loot items they are entitled to own; they cannot "ninja" or steal loot directly from other players.



What if I disagree with the way loot is distributed? Isn't that ninja looting?
No. Such disagreements are considered looting disputes, not ninja looting. A looting dispute occurs when a player loots an item for which he or she is eligible, but in doing so, goes against social looting practices (Main Spec > Off Spec, upgrades only, etc). While some looting disputes may be a social faux pas and can tarnish a player's reputation, they are not a violation of any in-game rule. Scams, however, are a violation, and may occasionally accompany a looting dispute.



Okay, so scamming is against the rules…what exactly is a scam?
In terms of loot, making and then breaking a clear in-game agreement * on the way loot will be distributed by a Master Looter can be considered a scam. Unfortunately, some players will make loot agreements they have no intention of keeping to get players to join a dungeon or raid group. In these situations, players who disregard the original agreement and then take (or give away) loot in a different way are potentially violating our Scam Policy. If you believe you have been scammed, please contact In-Game Support.

Please note that if In-Game Support is able to determine a scam has taken place after a clear in-game loot distribution agreement is made, any items involved may be removed from their current owners. In cases where a "rightful" owner can be proven, these items may also be transferred; however, loot will be left unassigned if a "rightful" owner cannot be identified. Due to the privacy associated with these investigations, In-Game Support will be unable to release details regarding an investigation's findings, actions taken, or its final outcome.

*A clear in-game agreement indicates that loot rules are fully defined. Partial agreements that do that wholly explain how loot will be distributed may prevent In-Game Support from assisting. If using Master Looter, please be sure to clarify with your raid group whether or not any items are reserved, what (if any) restrictions will be placed on rolls based on class specializations, and how winners of open rolls will be selected.


Is there anything I can do to help avoid looting disputes in general?
Yes!

• First and foremost, understand how each loot setting in the game works. Since the in-game looting system is designed to place control of loot distribution into players' hands, it's important to understand the differences between them. This will help avoid misunderstandings and ensure the group uses the most compatible setting. You can learn more about these settings here.
  
  
• Second, group with players you trust whenever possible. While most loot settings allow game mechanics to determine how loot is distributed, some rely on one player's discretion (Master Looter) or how quickly a corpse or chest is looted (Free-For-All). If you are unable to group with players you trust, Master Loot and Free-For-All may not be the ideal loot settings for you.
  
  
• Third, verify the loot setting selected by the group Leader when you join a new group or raid. If you have any concerns with the group's loot setting, discuss it with your group members and clarify what, if any, additional loot rules may apply. This is especially important for groups run by Master Looter! If you are uncomfortable with the loot setting adopted by the group, respectfully declining the invitation or leaving the group before engaging in an encounter is recommended.
  
  
• Fourth, be polite and attentive when joining a new dungeon or raid group. Many times, players who believe they have been scammed simply missed or misinterpreted the looting rules and/or expectations set forth by the group Leader. Remember: you too are responsible for following the rules set for a group.

Related articles are also available here:

What are the differences between group loot settings in the World of Warcraft?
http://us.blizzard.com/support/article/16893

Looting Items in the New Dungeon System
http://us.blizzard.com/support/article/30405

Scam Policy
http://us.blizzard.com/support/article/20459

If these resources do not address the concern at hand, let me know and we'll dialogue further. :)

I would also like to clear up one point of confusion: For groups formed through the Dungeon Finder (excluding pre-made groups of five), the revamped "Need Before Greed" system will take precedence. This means that if the "Need Before Greed" system allows a player to roll "Need", that player has every right to do so and, given a winning roll, actually loot the item. Simply because another player may roll on and then win an item that you want does not make that player a "ninja." No theft of any kind occurs in this scenario.

To qualify my statement, let me clearly breakdown how the "Need Before Greed" system works. It's based on the standard group loot setting, but with a few key adjustments, namely that “Need” rolls will be restricted based on several factors:

• The player’s class must be able to equip the item, either at the time of the roll or at a later level. For example: A level 38 shaman would able to roll “Need” on a level 42 mail item; however, he or she would not be able to roll “Need” on a plate item.
  
  
• The armor proficiency of the player’s class must not be higher than the item being rolled on. If it is, the player will unable to roll “Need.” For example: A level 75 warrior would unable to roll "Need" on certain mail items. (This restriction will only come into play for items with an iLevel above 70.)
  
  
• If a player’s class is pure melee, he or she will be unable to roll “Need” on spell power items. Pure melee classes include rogues and warriors. Druids, paladins, death knights, and shaman may still roll “Need” on spell power items, provided that the above two conditions are met.

This means that if a player is able to roll on an item (barring the presence of any known bugs), then he or she is entitled to own it. While rolling on an item that would serve as an upgrade for another might be considered a social faux-pas, it's not against the rules.

Additionally, at this time, the breaking of in-game agreements related to loot distribution only applies for groups that use the Master Looter setting. This is clearly noted in the policy I quoted in my previous post.

Q u o t e:
If this thread is not going to be moderated, it should at least be locked.

The OP's issue has been addressed and now it just become a flame war between 2 individuals.

Thanks for keeping an eye out, Thunderwulf. I hadn't seen the latest posts in the discussion. Please tap the biohazard again if it looks like I missed anything. :)


Raindance, Rú: I can respect that each of you hold differing opinions, but I would ask that, if you wish to continue posting in this thread, to please keep your posts as civil as possible. You're welcome to keep debating, but things are starting to get a bit hostile. Try to tone things down a bit, and go ahead and leave defamatory remarks and attacks ad hominem at the door. Thanks you two!

You're good, Rú. :)

I just want to be able to keep this thread open in the event that Xsyringe returns and has questions (which may or may not occur, but it's a good thing to prep for).

Q u o t e:
I love reading posts on forums that are edited by a GM but it isn't said or shown what was edited.

Glad to know everything we say has a filter on it by Blizzard to make them look good and ignore actual problems.

In this particular thread, most of the posts were edited to remove a single inappropriate word. We want the Customer Service Forum to remain constructive and, as part of this goal, will frequently edit out derogatory phrases.

Also, if you read closely, you'll note that the actual concerns expressed by each player are still in-tact; only hostile language or uncivil comments were removed. Questions and/or concerns that players may possess with a certain policy or feature are more than welcome in this forum, but only if expressed civilly and with respect towards fellow posters.

You're welcome to disagree with that philosophy, of course, and if you have any concerns about the moderation of this forum, please feel free to email [email protected]. :)