Request for Scam investigation.

#0 - April 17, 2010, 5:44 p.m.

Hello,

On April 10th of 2010 I moved to the Laughing Skull Alliance realm on this character. I joined a VoA 25 man raid led by (not sure if I should put names so ill leave this part out). When I asked what the loot rules were he said "Loot rules will be 1-100 and highest wins for that class".

I accepted the invite and went on the VoA run. We went through about 4 pieces of loot, all of which were random 1-100'd and given to the highest roller, at that point he linked the MAGE wrathful guardian cloth leggings.

We all rolled and I won the roll. The next highest roller was 30 "points below" me, and the last two tied @ the lowest bid in the 20's. The Raid looter gave the pants to his guild mate who was one of the low end rollers in the 20's. When asked about it in /raid the mages who questioned the action were removed from the instance and raid.

I sent a nice tell stating "Next time, if you plan on scamming me off the cloth so your friend can get gear please just be upfront with me so that I don't waste my time coming."

At this point 20 or so minutes had gone by and I get a response from the guy saying the following "You suck, that is why you don't win legs".

I responded with pasting him the Recount parse which showed I did 11.5k, and all the other mages were @ 5. His friend who won the legs was at 2k. He then replied "Oh, you are right I am sorry, I thought you were the other mage who complained."

about 10 minutes later he said "Actually you didn't win because I already decided by the time you rolled that my friend won them." His "friend" and "guild mate" actually rolled LOWER then 2 other mages also, and he was the last person to roll.

I then explained that I didn't want to discuss it with him anymore, that the legs were trade-able and he could have given me the legs after he saw his mistake instead of removing me from the raid. I told him I would petition and the GM's could decide what to do about it. At this point he basically laughed in my face saying that GM's do not enforce loot rules that he has been doing this for ages and there is nothing that they will do about it because he "wasn't clear enough about the loot rules" even though he stated that it was 1-100 and highest was winner.

He felt as though because he didn't put "highest roller" that he was entitled to "decide" what "highest" was. Now, I don't know about you but if someone says "1-100, and highest wins" then having 4 pieces of loot go to the highest roller except the one piece that his guild mate could use would denote that he infact DID change the loot rules in the middle of the raid to "scam" the other mages out of legs that were supposed to be rolled on like all other pieces of loot.

With that said:

I do not expect much from this to be honest. I already petitioned when it happened and waited 15 hours for a response. I got notified I had 20 minutes left until the next GM was available so I waited and stared at the queue and chat box for a response. Instantly I got a response with a canned "We do not investigate Ninja Looting in World of Warcraft." He/She then pasted the loot rules posted on the help site. In my petition I made it VERY clear that this was not an instance of supposed ninja looting, yet a planned scam by 2 guild mates who were trying to gear a new toon for pvp.

I then responded and asked why the situation wasn't looked into, that I was a bit offended that he didn't even bother to "ask" me what happened and that I would appreciate someone to please take more care and look into it. I feel strongly about customer service and will stop paying a company I felt did not care about my money.

I got a response from the next GM stating that if I didn't like the policy that I should then submit feedback, post here, or when the petition survey comes up "vote" negatively and state why. I then replied that I would do all 3, and that I would still appreciate an answer or explanation on why this was not considered a scam, with the knowledge that my time was used to obtain gear that they could not obtain on their own and that they lied about the loot rules because they knew that I, nor the other mages would go if they didn't.

My petition was met with another canned response linking the loot rules and explaining that you do not investigate ninja looting, which again this isn't a case of and my petition already stated was not the case.

So can I at least get some clarification on why my particular case was not looked into, and if it was, why I was given a canned response instead of the reasons why it wasn't consider a scam so that I as a customer can make a better informed decision about when a person denotes loot rules I can decide to go or not. Although I appreciate player input I really would like a blue response because honestly you are the only ones who have the logs and anything else is just Hersey based on what they have read not what the actual reasons were my situation didn't deserve more scrutiny. I have moved to Horde because I no longer wanted to be on the same side as these people so you will have to check my logs from the 10th when I was on alliance.

Malkorix

#11 - April 19, 2010, 8:42 p.m.

Hello Midgatron!

First, I'm sorry to hear that you might have been frustrated by your interaction with our staff. If ever you want to comment on the service you've received, then you can do so via email at [email protected].

Before you do so in this case, though, I want to reassure you that this situation was investigated. In fact, I've looked into it personally and I was unable to locate a line where the raid leader or master looter discussed loot rules.

I know this incident occurred some time ago, but do you recall when that statement was issued, or perhaps who issued it? If you want to mention a specific character then I am authorizing you to do so, but please edit that player's name out of your post immediately. I'll still be able to read it, and anything you can add might prove useful.

Malkorix

#13 - April 19, 2010, 9:04 p.m.

Q u o t e:
I think what the furry kitty meant to say was you could mention a specific character here on the forums, but be sure to edit the player's name out of your post once you make it, since the GM's can read edits. :)

Indeed. *cough* *blush*

Fixed!

Malkorix

#29 - April 20, 2010, 8:39 p.m.

Q u o t e:
Thank you for the reply, not really "frustrated" just confused I guess =).

The players name was Player of the guild Guildname alliance Laughing Skull. I will be the first to admit I have a pretty darn good memory, but even if can be faulty so I was more really interested in why I never heard back about the investigation.

Edited names out now!

Thank you.

That was the character I investigated previously, but I will examine this situation in detail once again.

Should you have any comments regarding an interaction that you've had with our staff, please feel free to express those concerns via email at [email protected] so that the matter can be reviewed appropriately.

In the meantime, I understand that some feathers have been ruffled over this situation but I would ask that cooler heads prevail for now.

Malkorix

#74 - April 20, 2010, 9:56 p.m.

Q u o t e:
Is it a scam to lie about loot rules in /raid even if you are the main raid loot, and if so why did I get this response from a gm? I can't play this game if I can't get a strait answer because if I can't pug then there is no point in playing for me and my playtimes:

What that Game Master stated about the Master Looter system is largely correct, though they may be operating under the assumptions of how this system once worked, or there was a misunderstanding regarding the point of facts in this case. In the absence of further clarification, it is assumed that the Master Looter has the authority to do with items as he or she wishes.

Currently, what a raid leader or master looter says can certainly point toward whether or not a scam is taking place. As before, if you have concerns regarding the contents of that email, you can submit your concerns for review at [email protected] and I sincerely apologize for any confusion or frustration that this might have caused for you.

I have thoroughly reviewed this situation again, this time in exhaustive detail, and my investigation reveals that the player in question never mentioned rules of any kind, much less specific and explicit loot rules, prior to the distribution of items.

I'd also like to reassure you that you can and should continue to join pick up groups and raids, but that should you do so, it is best to ensure that you have a clear understanding of what the raid leader intends so you can make an informed decision regarding whether you should continue to participate in that group. Requesting explicit loot rules is an excellent way to help protect yourself.

Malkorix

#81 - April 20, 2010, 10:03 p.m.

Q u o t e:

Thank You! That was the answer I was waiting for. I just wanted to know that if I do (the next time) get CLEAR and defined rules I would have a leg to stand on if I came back for help.

one further question if you don't mind, will a screenshot help in these situations or are those considered to be something that can be altered and there for not used?

Q u o t e:

Screenshots aren't accepted as evidence for two reasons. First, they are easily altered. Second, they are unnecessary. The chat and activity logs the GMs have access to show EVERYTHING that happens in the game.

Quite so! We are unable to take screenshots as evidence, but a thorough report including the exact name of an offender as well as a detailed description of what occurred can help ensure that we are able to investigate most efficiently.