Abuse of game mechanics?

#0 - April 16, 2010, 6:42 p.m.

The LFD tool has default and unalterable loot rules in place when used to join random players in an instance, as stated here:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=21627535173&sid=1

Q u o t e:
Need Before Greed will be the default and unalterable looting system for all groups formed through the Dungeon Finder (excluding premade groups of five).

And this default and unalterable loot system in place via the LFD tool can be used without repercussions as stated here:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=23767563604&postId=237651963128&sid=1#2

Q u o t e:
As to looting, if a player has the option to roll Need, they can choose to roll Need. The Need Before Greed system does not limit healing gear to the healer, tank gear to the tank, or DPS gear to the DPS. So a player rolling Need has done nothing wrong.

The LFD tool also has a Vote-kick feature that can be used while in an instance for any reason whatsoever with no repercussions as stated here:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=23767563604&postId=237651963128&sid=1#2

Q u o t e:
There currently are no policy restrictions on the Vote to Kick system. Any player can initiate a Vote to Kick for any reason.

Now, the situation of a player that is Vote-kicked out of a heroic LFD PuG based on winning the Need roll on an item the player will use, or based on other players not wanting loot competition from a boss of the instance?

Is this situation considered an abuse of game mechanics as defined here:

http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_US&articleId=20224&parentCategoryId&pageNumber=1&categoryId=2415

Q u o t e:
Abuse of Game Mechanics... includes using... game mechanics in a manner unintended by their design that:

* Damages another players... gameplay

I completely agree a player vote-kicked from a heroic instance based on looting under a default and unalterable loot system while in a LFD PuG damages that players gameplay because that player was forced to not be able to finish the heroic instance.

(they are locked to the instance and can not finish the heroic instance until the lock is reset by Blizzard)

How does Blizzard see this situation? An abuse of game mechanics like I do?

Malkorix

#19 - April 16, 2010, 9:47 p.m.

Q u o t e:

That is stating they did not intend for the loot system of LFD PuGs to be default and unalterable then.

No, it still is, and should someone roll Need and win an item, then they were operating within that system. If the other players in that party disagree with a party member's behavior, then they are within their rights to use the Vote Kick system.

In turn, if a player was kicked, then they can use the cross-realm /ignore feature to prevent themselves from ending up in future LFD groups with those players. Part of the the purpose of the cross realm /ignore feature is to help our players shape the 'pool' of players that they are grouped with, and allow them to use the [Fish Net of Discretion] to scoop undesirables from that pool.

Q u o t e:
So which mechanic is working as intended?

Both are functioning as they currently should. The Looking For Dungeon system is also quite new in the scheme of things, and we are still closely monitoring how our players make use of it. Still, we understand that no system is perfect and I encourage you to provide any constructive feedback you might have via the Suggestions forums.

Malkorix

#23 - April 16, 2010, 10:24 p.m.

Q u o t e:
Being able to /ignore 50 players is not going to protect customers from abuse of the vote-kick system by the other 20,000+ players in the "pool" of the LFD system, in my humble opinion.

The only recourse a paying customer has to protect themselves from any abuse of the LFD Vote-Kick is to simply not use the LFD tool at all, as far as I can tell.

Which is why I came here to begin with to see if it was an actionable offense under the "abuse of game mechanics" policy that Blizzard has, and if a ticket submitted to a GM would be recourse players have if/when the vote-kick was abused.

I believe I've explained that the system was not (according to our current policies) abused.

Hyperbole is unnecessary and clouds the issue. I was under the impression that you were expressing a concern regarding a relatively infrequent occurrence. If you believe that all 20,000 other players in your battlegroup joining LFD groups are likely to 'exploit game mechanics' in their use of the provided system, then perhaps restricting your Heroic instance grouping to friends and guild mates may truly be the best course of action.

As before, if you have suggestions regarding how the mechanics of this system might be improved to help prevent the scenario we're discussing, please feel free to contribute them via our Suggestions forum.

Malkorix

#37 - April 17, 2010, 12:41 a.m.

Q u o t e:
Either way, Blizzard has already stated the situation is not actionable by Blizzard, and players need to stop joining LFD PuGs if they wish to use the Need/Greed system without being prevented from completing a specific heroic instance by other players.

Please do not put words in my mouth, Gopi. I did not say that you, or anyone else needs to stop taking advantage of the Looking For Dungeon system, nor anything of the sort.

I did state that, based on your perception of the system, and what you believe the be the inevitable outcome of its use, that refraining from its use may be best for you so as to avoid the scenarios that you've described.

On that note, I would like to examine this situation with greater clarity. May I ask on which character you experienced this issue most recently, the realm you were playing from, and approximately when this occurred?

Malkorix

#42 - April 17, 2010, 1:15 a.m.

Q u o t e:
Refrain from using the LFD to join PuGs is still the only recourse you stated for players that are frustrated by the issue I feel players will and have created for players, regardless of how frequent this does happen.

Not so! In fact, I advised the use of the cross realm /ignore feature to help shape your gameplay over time. If I am not mistaken, I received the impression that this was not an attractive option to you:

"In turn, if a player was kicked, then they can use the cross-realm /ignore feature to prevent themselves from ending up in future LFD groups with those players. Part of the the purpose of the cross realm /ignore feature is to help our players shape the 'pool' of players that they are grouped with, and allow them to use the [Fish Net of Discretion] to scoop undesirables from that pool."

Merely because an option has been rejected, does not mean that the option ceases to exist.

Q u o t e:
The last time I had it happen I was on my Paladin Nomera in a LFD PuG.

Thank you! That will help provide me with some specific context.

Malkorix

#55 - April 17, 2010, 1:54 a.m.

Q u o t e:

I am here in the hopes they will make this an actionable offense to better protect players from Vote-kick abuse.

Ah, I thought you were seeking clarification.

If you want to see our systems change, the only appropriate method to request it is via our Suggestions forum. We are simply not in a position to field suggestions for changes to the game itself or our policies via this forum.

Malkorix

#65 - April 17, 2010, 2:46 a.m.

Q u o t e:

Yes.

Could I please ask Malkorix what you found out from looking into the information I provided earlier and why you wanted to look into the information before I leave?

Sure, I wanted to examine the context of the situation, that's all.

I was actually going to return to the thread to request the time frame again. I don't suppose you could provide a rough time frame you were running so I can narrow my research a bit?

Malkorix

#67 - April 17, 2010, 2:58 a.m.

Q u o t e:

No, sorry, I don't remember, other then my husband was in the group, so most likely it was after 4pm CST on a weekday, but it could have very much been just as likely to have been anytime on the weekend as well.

We played wow alot back then =P

I understand completely if you can not find what I am referring to, and I truly appreciate you looking into the situation.

The only thing I found was mid-march, and did not appear to be related to Trial of the Crusader. I too apologize as my research-fu appears to have failed me this time, but I would like to wish you luck on your future instance runs.

I understand why this situation was frustrating to you, and I also understand that you simply want to make the system better for everyone. I sincerely hope that you find an equilibrium, and that the Dungeon Finder Tool remains useful and fun for you.