Ninja looter and all we get is an auto-respon

#0 - April 14, 2010, 3:32 a.m.

What the heck is with the auto-responses from the guild masters now? Nothing gets an actual response and it seems like there is no actual guild masters.

Anyways we had a good 25 man VoA run today and all the rules were posted up before we all got into the dungeon. Everyone knew the looting rules and everyone accepted them. We finally down the first boss for our two frost emblems and to our surprise a Grand Black War Mammoth dropped! Everyone rolled for the items that were before it and it finally came down to the mount. The winner with a 98 was a warrior I once met looking for an enchanter for the same enchant he was after. The raid leader suddenly blurted out that everyone's going to hate him. Then made up the rules, "Okay everyone, we don't want this mount being given to someone's alt so only those who have their achievement points up above 6k can roll for this". This being after everyone rolled and the person won the mount. The only reason why he made up this rule is simply because he was the only one who had his achievement points above 6k. Everyone started telling the raid leader that the guy had won fair and square and kept telling him to give the guy the mount. Nope, he actually said 'Well screw you guys I'll just take the mount". There he just took it and ran.

Everyone reported the guy, he was kicked out of his guild, he was pointed out in trade channel and throughout the alliance... and yet all we got was an automated response by the GM. Those involved in this run are really ticked off. We're filing in complaints again and now we are hoping.. more like demanding that the guy gets his mount.

Vrakthris

#12 - April 14, 2010, 4:53 a.m.

Q u o t e:
If you put in a new ticket, make sure you use the term scam and not ninja. Blizzard doesn't recognize the term Ninja because it refers to someone looting out of turn or taking something they didn't have a right to.

A master looter has the right to distribute the loot any way he sees fit. However, if he clearly states loot rules, especially concerning a specific item, and doesn't follow through on the rules he set forth, he can be guilty of scamming.

I wish you well.

I'd have to agree with Adelias on this one. Your petition indicated that the item was "ninja'd", Delakando, not that you believe a scam took place. Ninja looting is impossible under the current looting mechanics available but we will look into possible scams.

I would edit your petition to include only relevant data.

Vrakthris

#18 - April 14, 2010, 5:02 a.m.

Q u o t e:
I respectfully disagree. They should speak with both parties to get both players sides of the story, then take a look at chat logs, etc.

I'm sorry, Methius, but that really isn't an appropriate use of time. We only need the initial report from the player claiming what happened as clearly and succinctly as possible.

Other then that, all we need the information we have available (i.e. logs).

Orlyia

#31 - April 14, 2010, 8:21 p.m.

We aren't in Houston, Del - we are in Austin.

While we'd love to speak to every player, when queue times are this high it is simply not always possible. We are trying to get to everyone's issue just as quickly as we possibly can.

Most situations, given enough detail, can be addressed with no further contact necessary past the report.

Orlyia

#35 - April 14, 2010, 10:07 a.m.

Q u o t e:
Wait so, in GM Land, Ninjaing doesn't mean a master looter looting things to himself or other people and ignoring legtimate rolls?

Because in WoW Land Year 2010 that's exactly what Ninjaing means.

We know what you mean, Goibon - barring any set agreements, on Master Loot - that is NOT AGAINST THE RULES.

That's why we can look into a SCAM. Taking something you are not entitled to (stealing) cannot happen in WoW.

Master Looter gives that person exclusive rights to determine loot distribution and the right to loot. You cannot steal from yourself, the system will not let you loot if it hasn't given you rights to it. By participating in a group with that as the loot setting your are agreeing to the arrangement.

Orlyia

#39 - April 14, 2010, 10:19 a.m.

Q u o t e:
Amazing.

Why Goibon, that's exactly as the system was designed.

What wasn't necessarily intended is the way some players USE the system....the tools, at their disposal.

Master Loot is far from the optimum loot type if one is with folks unknown to you, or you don't have reason to trust.

Orlyia

#46 - April 14, 2010, 10:36 a.m.

Q u o t e:

The MMO player term for ninja isn't going to be located in some dictionary. Its a player term. It means whatever the players intend it mean. Players use the term ninja as 1: being cheated out of an item or having an item stolen from them and or 2: Being scammed

The sooner you people accept the fact the term exists the better. Or are you so ignorant you refuse to acknowledge it at all?

Actually that word in a gamer connotation goes WAY back, Methius.

It means to have something 'stolen' from one.....a kill, loot - whatever. WoW players may think they've come up with a totally new concept - sorry, it is rather old.

Given that there are two scenarios that are VASTLY different under our mechanics, perhaps recognizing what those differences are would be beneficial.

Orlyia

#47 - April 14, 2010, 10:39 a.m.

Q u o t e:

Sure, as long as you don't use the word ninja, because apparently the GM's see that word, say nope can't happen, and don't even bother actually looking into the situation to determine if in fact it's a scam, despite KNOWING that people use the term ninja for what Blizzard calls a scam.

It's like walking into a fast food joint that sells soda, asking for a pop, and they refuse to sell you a soft drink because you won't use the right term.

These investigations can take a LONG time, Naleh.

No, they aren't going to go through hours of searches for a 'ninja' - as every player that feels they didn't get a 'fair shake' at a roll also uses that term. Those that think someone shouldn't have rolled need when they could in a LFG dungeon....uses that term. Those that think for whatever reason THEY should have priority on a loot....uses that term.

So no, we investigate what is reported and under Master Looter the criteria for a prior agreement and a scam even with sufficient information can take a long time - so, no - we aren't going to do that kind of research on a 'ninja'.

Orlyia

#58 - April 14, 2010, 10:51 a.m.

Q u o t e:

I'm not saying the term isn't abused. Just like any term I'm sure it is abused alot. Its like the boy who cried wolf. However the term does exist in MMO's including wow. And it does mean several legitimate things, including being scammed. I realize no one can "Steal" loot from anyone else but scams are plenty in wow and ninja's are on the loose looking for people naive enough to fall into their trap.

And yet there is perfect defense against this one.

Use the proper loot type for the proper situation. Master Loot is NOT usually the ideal loot type in any type of PUG.

Technically even with a prior agreement - you are STILL giving that individual discretion over the loot.

This should never happen with the tools every player has available.

Do NOT use Master Loot in a PUG.
Run your own raids so you know they are done fairly.
Refuse to participate if the loot type is one that you don't feel fair or trustworthy for the situation.

Every one of these are preventable and every player has this power within their own grasp.

Orlyia

#65 - April 14, 2010, 10:58 a.m.

There are other loot types Goibon.

Master Looter was primarily intended for guilds with complex loot councils and DKP systems.

Misusing a tool - don't blame the tool. A heel on a shoe can be pressed into service as a hammer, but it makes a poor one.

If everyone - today - said, no, I'll not raid unless you set this Need before Greed, it would happen.

Orlyia

#68 - April 14, 2010, 11:01 a.m.

Q u o t e:
Wow seriously. So if someone doesn't agree with you, you remove their post?

When they are trolling and I'd rather not be forced to remove their posting privileges - yes.

Orlyia

#73 - April 14, 2010, 11:06 a.m.

Q u o t e:

Quite frankly, the need before greed system leaves much to be desired. You then have to rely on EVERYONE in the raid to be honest and not roll need if it's not their spec, etc, rather than on ONE person to fairly distribute the loot. Yes, there have been some changes to the NbG system lately, and they are going in the right direction, but it is still far from being what is needed in a pug raid.

I don't think you'd find any dispute that things could be improved, Naleh. When talking about loot, how to do it to be 'fairer' is exactly the question.

If you have any specific ideas on that type of system, by all means, please do post them so our developers can read your thoughts in our Suggestion Forum.

Orlyia

#77 - April 14, 2010, 11:26 a.m.

Q u o t e:
Since I do not see any way of sending you a private message Orlyia, I will post this here.

I want to really thank you (not) for suspending my boyfriend's IN-GAME account for what you considered trolling. He has now cancelled his account and I have to find a new way to spend time with him, which means I'll probably be cancelling my account as well. And I did look up the forum code of conduct, and it states: "Be given a temporary or permanent ban from the World of Warcraft forums" is the punishment for spamming and trolling, which is the reason given for his ban. That does not say in game, it says forums.

Don't know what he may have done to garner that if true - wasn't me.

Additional Edit: Nor do I see an impediments on that accounts in-game access.