Probably no Revenge nerf anytime soon

#0 - March 26, 2010, 4:55 p.m.

There is probably not going to be any Revenge Nerf anytime soon. I don't really PvP, but from what I read on the forums most of the demands for a nerf to revenge are based on the new revenge in PvP. Had the new revenge been so utterly devastating and game changing as some make it out to be, there would have been a hotfix or atleast a blue post about it. The fact that neither have come indicate that Blizzard is probably in a wait and see attitude.

Whether or not Blizzard will change revenge in the future I do not know. However I suspect that Blizzard will not make any changes to Revenge based on people merely claiming that it is OP on a Hypothetical posit. Additionally Blizzard will probably not make any changes to Revenge in a Vacuum. The buffs came hand in hand with the nerf to Bladestorm, which again is really only a change to PvP.

To those advocating a change to revenge, I suggest you compile actual experiences or data on the new revenge. Blizzard will probably not make a change until it can be demonstrated that (1) in PvP a revenge Proc for a warrior is a guaranteed game changer for that match, and (2) Revenge Procs too often.

I do not believe it has been proven that Revenge is a guaranteed game changer. Most complaints of revenge currently rest on a hypothetical situation where revenge crits for 3 times in a row. This requires someone to be in melee range of the warrior for the full duration of when a revenge proc is up. the warrior to actually be able to get three revenge hits off, and the revenge to actually crit three times in a row. Now given the normal chaos of PvP with player movement, snares, slows and CC the ability to get three successive hits off is certainly not guaranteed. Additionally even a well geared arms warrior, will probably not have a crit higher than 40% making the chance to get three crits in a row roughly 6%.

As of now, given revenge's proc requirements, the only way an arms warrior can get a guaranteed proc is by using shield block and someone melee attacking them in the front. This seems like a rather isolated occurence as shield block only lasts 10 seconds and is not a spamable ability. If a warrior cannot plan the use of their new revenge spam ability it becomes much less effective. What they are left with is trying to capitalize on a random proc of revenge from the Arm's warriors low dodge, block, parry chance and hope that they can switch to Defensive stance, and then find someone within range to wail on.

Whether or not the new revenge is OP, I do not know. As I've said I don't really PvP. But merely claiming it is OP without actual experiences or data will not change anyone's mind, including Ghostcrawler's.

Ghostcrawler

#9 - March 26, 2010, 5:46 p.m.

We like Revenge on UA and we certainly like the new damage Protection can do with Revenge.

If we make any change at all, it would probably be in the duration of the buff. Currently Revenge operates by giving the warrior 5 seconds in which to Revenge. This works fine when Revenge has a 5 sec cooldown, but UA removes that. Having no cooldown on Revenge is also probably fine if Revenge hits softly for Arms warriors, but it doesn't anymore. That allows a warrior who gets Revenge to light up to hit the button three or possibly four times in the window and do massive damage with each one. If we change Revenge to basically be one charge then the warrior can still pop the rogue or pet or whatever that triggers the block, dodge or parry, but they'd only get one hit instead of multiples. Such a change should not affect Protection at all.

Ghostcrawler

#341 - March 27, 2010, 8:14 p.m.

Q u o t e:
I can't believe all this QQ is getting a response from you. Popping shield block and revenge spaming as arms is not new at all.

Nope. And it wasn't a big deal when Revenge didn't hit as hard as it does now. An alternative is to lower the damage Arms can do with Revenge, but we think in this case it's actually a better design that you can do one big Revenge per block / dodge / parry instead of a string of little ones.

Q u o t e:
I could understand if you think warriors need some balancing but craving into fotm QQ disgusts me. Why are you soo quick to base nerfs off of the community's feedback but soo reluctant to buff them using their suggestions?

Players often complain that we don't implement their suggested buffs or nerfs. This is nothing new. I suspect the volume of nerf posts exceed the buff posts because of the simple math that there are usually multiple classes asking for a nerf and one asking for a buff. We use player feedback to make informed decisions and we place more emphasis on intelligent or insightful points from players rather than a high-volume of low-quality QQ. "Warrior hit me hard" rage with perhaps an attached screenshot of dubious authenticity (tenacity vs. no resilience isn't uncommon) doesn't qualify as an intelligent or insightful point. :)

Ghostcrawler

#408 - March 29, 2010, 8:58 p.m.

Q u o t e:
the reason why warbringer and shieldslam got nurfed was because of the mages QQ'ing that they were getting owned! look at the old posts when that was the hop topic and look and their pvp achievements...they have none and oh look they have no resilience gear as well...guess what they are clothies...of course physical damage will hit them hard...thats why they have kiting abilites tell the mages to l2 use them instead of nurfing a class. Iv seen several mages macro everything they have to 1 button and try to kill everything b4 they die but when their strategy fails they come to the forums QQ and other classes get nurfed because of it

Allow me to make some slight edits to your post.

"The reason why Warbringer and Shield Slam got nerfed was because they were overpowered."

What is overpowered is something we, and only we, get to determine. If players bring something up, we typically look into it. Just because sometimes player opinions align with ours does not mean the former drive the latter. There are plenty of counter examples of the community convinced something is a problem that we think is working fine.

The forums are a good source of feedback for us, but don't turn them into some kind of design council.

Ghostcrawler

#440 - March 30, 2010, 10:04 p.m.

In the interest of avoiding the unflattering scent of stealth nerf, allow me to post that we are going to make that change (one Revenge per proc) I suggested above.