Feral quality of life adjustments?

#0 - Feb. 18, 2010, 4:37 p.m.
Blizzard Post
currently feral druids are in a pretty darn good place. competitive tanking, solid pve dps, and powerful in pvp. however, seeing another feral in pvp is a very rare occurrence. part of this, i feel, is due to resto being a more powerful spec (what else is new?), but i also think there is another factor at play there. much like hunters in BC, ferals have all the tools they need to succeed, but the difficulty of play of the spec makes it much harder for new people to get into the spec.

in pve, the complexity and dynamic nature of our damage dealing rotation is the source of a lot of fun for most ferals, including myself. i think most people would agree that preserving that fun is very important in any potential change. so what are some ideas to make things a bit more manageable in the hectic pvp world?

vulerability to tranquilizing shot (hunter) and anesthetic poison (rogue) is a major, completely imbalanced weakness for us. for a relatively low mana cost or the price of 2 weapon swapping globals, these two classes can esesntially place a 30% damage debuff on us for an entire arena match. the only other two classes that have dispellable enrage effects are warriors (arms and prot) and rogues (HfB). in both cases the opprotunity cost of putting the enrage buff up is much much lower, or nonexistent in the case of warriors, and the magnitude of the buff is 1/3 for warriors, 1/6 for rogues. given the extremely low opprotunity cost for removing these buffs, this would seem to be balanced. however, when considering ferals the opprotunity cost is so much greater, and the buff is so much more essential, therefore i recommend that savage roar simply be a physical buff.

99% of rogues and hunters don't bother with this anyways, either due to laziness or ignorance i am not sure, but the ones who do absolutely shut down any hope of offensive pressure for a feral.

the duration of savage roar in pvp is far too short, and exacerbates the ramp up problems that plague our spec. unlike it's analog slice n' dice for rogues, feral's savage roar must be up for the feral to do any meaningful damage. given the chaotic nature of pvp when compared to pve, the duration of this buff is far too short when considering how many resources must go into maintaining it. however, lengthening the duration on the buff baseline would have an effect on pve dps. therefore, i recommend that savage roar gain 8 seconds to its duration, either through a new glyph or pvp set bonus so that it does not affect pve.

similarly, the duration of the mangle debuff is too short. again, this is another aspect of our damage dealing that has to be up before anything productive can be done as without it, everything we do except for auto attack and ferocious bite is 30% weaker. in pve, the delta between having an arms warrior or another druid to maintain to maintain this debuff for us has been simcrafted to be around 500 dps. in reality, this number ends up being significantly larger due to specific fight mechanics and sometimes losing out on the full benefit of glyph of shred (extends rip duration). therefore, i suggest that the glyph of mangle effect (+6 seconds) become baseline or the base timer increased or refreshed in some manner.

the effect of latency on feral pvp is gigantic. with good ping for both parties, shredding is reasonably difficult as the positioning on my screen usually ends up being what is needed to execute a shred. however, with increased latency this quickly goes out the window. in a game with unlimited rotational speed, such a mechanic is extremely frustrating for anyone without perfect latency. therefore, i suggest that primal gore be unlinked from rend and tear. this would make a mangle centric spec be a viable option for pvp ferals. going this route, the feral would sacrifice higher burst damage for an easier to manage rotation, more CP generation, no positional requirement on main attack, and slightly more bear defenses (most likely).

finally, ferals are extremely vulnerable to offensive dispels. of our 2 defensive cooldowns, our most commonly used one (barkskin) is dispellable with exactly zero resistance. this fact only serves to exacerbate our weaknesses to casters in arena. also, feral is extremely vulnerable in caster form, losing any and all defenses in that form. moonkins also need some extra dispel protection on barkskin as well as increased protection in caster and travel form. therefore i suggest that improved barkskin be moved to shallow restoration so that feral and moonkin can potentially take it, and to avoid pve tanking issues the extra 10% effect on it be moved to an alternate deep resto talent.

most of these changes would have very little if any effect on burst damage and wouldn't be all that noticeable to non-feral players while making the spec much more accessible and fun to play in pvp. what do you guys think?
#116 - Feb. 25, 2010, 5:06 p.m.
Blizzard Post
We looked into "the Rake bug" before and couldn't find any problems. Can someone succinctly explain when it happens or provide reproducible steps? Rake can get blocked, or it can sometimes fail to overwrite a previous application, but you shouldn't be clipping your Rakes anyway.
#168 - Feb. 25, 2010, 11 p.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:
There's been how many threads on this subject, completely missed by yourself, apparently.


I know, but none of them have been able to give steps that would let us find the bug, so it's not as simple as it happening all the time under all circumstances. It must have something to do with server - client latency because it just doesn't happen for us. We'll keep looking though.
#176 - Feb. 25, 2010, 11:39 p.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:
But that's not the bug people are talking about. You're talking about clipping rake and not letting it run its course, which you shouldn't be doing anyway.

The bug people are concerned about, and the one blizzard can't find, is ferals claiming that sometimes there's no rake debuff applied at all, even when they are 100% sure they (and no other feral in the raid either) don't already have a rake on the target.


Right. It's possible that there is sever - client disagreement (because of lag) about what's going on, so that you think you can reapply Rake (because it has fallen off) but get the "more powerful aura" error instead.

We did have a similar problem with Immolate at some point, but we fixed it by letting you clip that last tick. I don't think you would want that with Rake because it would be a dps loss when that happened.