Is This Loot Dispute A TOS Violation?

#0 - Jan. 26, 2010, 9:02 p.m.

Lots of loot and ninja discussions here. Here's a description of a real situation that happened to one of my toons (I have screenshots by the way) not too long ago.

Naxx25 run.

Masterlooter tells raid that rules are highest roll wins. Masterlooter distributes all the loot under these rules. Part of the way in a Tier chest piece falls.

Masterlooter: /rw Roll
he rolls 40 something.
I roll 80 something.

nobody else rolls.

Masterlooter whispers "I'll give you 500g for that chest piece you won".
I reply: "your current gear is better, and I still need this level gear. Thanks, but no".
Materlooter whispers "I'll give you 800g then".
I reply "no, thanks. ha. I really don't need gold right now"
Masterlooter whispers "Make it 1000g"
I reply. "no, really, I just need the piece. I ran this hoping for this drop"

Masterlooter takes the gear and logs off.

Now in this instance I suggest it's fraud. He acknowledged that he violated the established loot rules. He offered gold for the item, which is an acknowledgement that it rightfully belonged to my toon. Then he took it and disappeared.

I consider this sort of thing a blatent scam, and certainly bad for the game.

This game is designed as a social game. If our community does not come down on this sort of situation (both officially through intervention by blizzard and unofficially by blacklisting this type of player) then I suggest we have an anarchy in the game and an environment that is hostile.

Now, I fully expect a flurry of posts along the lines of "ha ha, you got pwned. go QQ" and "that gear sucks anyway" and "there's no such thing as ninja... you should only run with trusted real world friends" and "masterlooters are God and can do whatever they want". But I believe these are all off topic.

I view this situation as the same as a trade fraud. ie - two people discuss a blacksmith making the 245 swordbreakers for a pally. pally opens trade window with blacksmith, blacksmith accepts a tip, the titansteel and crusader orbs. blacksmith says oops, gotta run. thanks sucker. /ignore and logs off.

I'm not going to officially report this player that ninja'd my loot because he has already changed his name and transferred to another realm and I'd rather blizzard fix my hacked account (which was why i came to this forum in the first place) than invest resources in this old loot. But I have to tell you that the day I got scammed I nearly quit. I was pretty angry but when I calmed down I thought better of it, and put it in perspective. But either way, this sort of behavior makes for a bad game experience.

Would this situation be fraud and against TOS?

TOS on scamming says "Acquiring items or any other "possessions" from another player through misinformation, confusion, or fraud (Scamming)"

There was, I believe, a blue post to this effect at one time that suggested that at times ninja looting could fall into this category, but I'm not finding it at the moment. Perhaps someone has it handy.

Open for discussion.

Syndri

#25 - Jan. 26, 2010, 10:43 p.m.

Highlighting two relevant sections from our previous discussion:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=22749237973&pageNo=8&sid=1#148

Q u o t e:
When joining raid or dungeon groups, we encourage you to check the set looting option and clarify any concerns you may have with the Party/Raid Leader or Master Looter. If you do not feel comfortable with the set looting option and/or agreed upon looting rules, please do not hesitate to leave the raid or dungeon group.

Q u o t e:
Now, as a general rule, the Game Master department will not interfere in looting disputes if one simply loots an item out of turn or against the wishes of other group members. This is why we encourage players to verify the set looting option for any group whenever they join.

There are some situations, however, where a potential scam or some form of abusive behavior might be taking place instead of or in addition to looting out-of-turn. These issues aren't cut and dry, though. If you ever feel an individual has violated any of our policies, please feel free to submit an in-game petition so that we may review the matter in further detail.

While your proposed example does not provide the necessary context to fully weigh a decision, it would be a situation the Game Master department would be happy to look into.

Syndri

#29 - Jan. 26, 2010, 11:10 p.m.

Q u o t e:
I hear the message loud and clear.

I believe you may have slightly misunderstood the message. =/

While looting out-of-turn is not considered a violation of policy, there are some situations wherein a legitimate scam or form of harassment may be accompanied by it. These situations can be confusing, and it may not be clear if all players conducted themselves appropriately. Because of this, if you feel a violation has occurred, it's important to bring your concerns to the attention of our Game Master department.

That said, I do appreciate the caution you will taking in the future with respect to looting options and rules. I hope that your raiding and dungeon experiences will be more enjoyable and relaxing because of it. :)