#0 - Dec. 7, 2009, 5:54 p.m.
A few weeks ago, I put myself in LFG for Ony25. Raid leader /w me seeing if I would tank. I asked in whispers it if was free rolls to which he replied yes. I always make it a point to have the leader clarify rules before a raid so I might have some retribution should they decide to "ninja" an item.
Well, the Onyxian Drake dropped. Immediately he looted it to himself, assigned the other loot, and left. I put in a ticket. The GM said they couldn't do anything even though I clarified rules. When it was time to leave feedback, I did so accordingly.
Below is the entirety of the email chain, beginning with them quoting my original feedback. I have removed names per forum rules.
Q u o t e:
Greetings xxxx,
Thank you for contacting the World of Warcraft Game Master Department.
Petition: well i must say that i am very satisfied that this does not seem to be an automated response. thank you very much. however, i will remain unsatisfied until you guys remove the mount from him. i talked to him today and he still has it.
loot rules were established before the run and he violated them. allowing him to keep the mount is simply unacceptable. it is scammming and quite honestly i'm not understanding why action isn't being taken.
Answer: The former petition has been investigated as noted, The resulted actions have taken place, although we are unable to disclose that information. Unfortunately, not being able to do so, you must contact our Account Administrations Department if you have any issues further regarding this issue.
You can contact our Account Administrations Department at [email protected].
Should you require further assistance, please submit another help request the next time you are online. We hope you continue to enjoy your experience in World of Warcraft!
For any game play questions, please refer to our site at http://www.blizzard.com/support/wowgm/
*** Please do not respond to this email as all conversations on this matter would be best handled online. ***
Regards,
xxxxx
Game Master
Blizzard Entertainment
So, they pointed me in the direction of account administration. Seemed I was making progress! Here is my response to them, including how flawed the loot system is and ANOTHER instance of the master looter taking advantage of the group. I would've submitted a separate ticket, but I already had one pending.
Q u o t e:
Hello. I am very unsatisfied with the results of my previous petitions regarding character "xxxxx" on the Destromath realm master-looting the Onyxian Drake (I'm sure you know, but this is a very, very rare mount) to himself. Before the run commenced, I asked him the loot rules and he assured me that everything would be /rolled on. This was during the lockout period of November 17-23, sorry I don't have the raid ID anymore.
According to http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_US&articleId=20459,
"What is a scam?
A scam is the act of acquiring items or any other possession from another player through misinformation, confusion, or fraud. In short, using any sort of deception to gain at another's expense. If you are unsure if your particular case fits the criteria of a scam, contact a GM in-game and they will be able to assist you. Example: [Scammer] says: Give me your sword and I will enchant it. *Victim hands sword to scammer* [Scammer] says: ROFL NEWB! Thanks for the sword!"
I believe this falls under "the act of acquiring items or any other possession from another player through misinformation, confusion, or fraud." I would never lock myself to a raid if I was not allowed to roll on certain items, which is why I always ask the loot master to clarify the loot rules to me before the run. I believe this person scammed me out of my chance at the mount for the week by master looting it to themselves.
Now, you may say "but Wojtek, stop using master-loot and this will not be a problem!" Well, that is not a good solution. Master loot is the only method that severely cuts down on items going to the wrong people, yet it opens up situations like the one I am experiencing.
Using group loot or need/greed is awful, especially with the advent of being able to trade items with group mates. Take, for example, if a 2H sword with strength drops. There are 2 people in that raid that could use that, a death knight and a ret paladin. But, the ret paladin has a hunter friend in the raid. Yes, hunters can technically equip strength swords, so he rolls and wins. Then he trades it to his ret paladin friend. The death knight is up against 2:1 odds instead of 1:1 as it should be. A master looter would never allow a hunter to win such an item.
Free for all and round robin are idiotic in a raid environment for obvious reasons.
So we are left with master loot. I was told that having the rules clarified before the run would ensure that GM action could take place in the event that the player went back on his/her word. I believe that is the case now, and I expect the player to have the mount removed from his possession. I have checked with the character in question and he still has the mount.
I am not asking that the mount is looted to me. I ask that at a bare minimum the mount is removed from his account. In a perfect world, you could randomly assign it to a player that was present in that raid, even if that random person ends up being him.
Please consider some action on this matter. Also please review the mortally wounded loot system. It should've been reviewed when BoP item trading was introduced, since that seemed to open a whole new can of worms.
A similar "ninja" incident occurred this week, this time the raid leader saying in raid that he was going to force a DC and petition the GM to award him the non-looted item. This was, of course, after he lost the roll to someone else. I couldn't put in a ticket at the time because I had this one pending, but I believe the character that was supposed to receive the item was named "xxxxx," but I am not sure. If you could look into this as well, that would be very much appreciated. This one has nothing to do with me, but it is very indicative that people are exploiting the game master channels for their own means.
I feel that I can no longer "pug" dungeons since the master looter will not be held responsible if they go back on their word.
Thank you for your time.
xxxx
Wojtek - Destromath US
Their response?
Q u o t e:
Greetings,
Thank you for contacting the World of Warcraft Game Master Department.
We have reviewed the looting issue you reported once more, and unfortunately, we have come to the same conclusion. We were unable to verify any agreement on the item in question. As such, the Master Looter was entitled to the mount that dropped. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this issue may have caused.
We base all of our actions on the severity of the violation, and we take previous violations into consideration. This action has been taken in accordance with the Terms of Use and our In-Game Policies (http://us.blizzard.com/support/article/20309).
As a reminder, only the Account Administration department can address disputes or questions about this account action. To learn more about how we are able to assist you, please visit us at http://us.blizzard.com/support/article/21505.
We hope this has resolved any concerns you may have had. Please let us know if we can be of further assistance.
Sincerely,
xxxxx
Account & Technical Services
Blizzard Entertainment
At this point I've pretty much given up, so I ask how to prevent it in the future. Below is the response, with my petition inline.
Q u o t e:
Greetings ,
Thank you for contacting the World of Warcraft Game Master Department.
Petition: Okay. Please explain to me how I can keep this from happening in the future. Keep in mind that using any system besides master loot is not an option, as all of the other loot options are inherently flawed, especially with the dawn of being able to trade items.
It's completely outlandish (pardon the pun) that people are allowed to get away with this. Company integrity? Yeah right. Looking out for their customers? Ha!
I will accept this answer and stop submitting more queries about it, but I would like to know how to prevent this from happening in the future.
Answer: Aside from only grouping with your guild or friends that you trust, the only thing that you could really do to protect yourself from issues like this would be to state clear and specific looting rules yourself in chat. Once you state the loot rules have the other members of the group including the master looter agree to them. Once they agree they are bound to a verbal agreement and if they break it we will then be able to take further action to get the item back for you and take further action against the master looter.
If the master looter does not agree to your looting rules I would suggest leaving the group to avoid the risk of have an item ninja looted. The two methods above are the best ways to avoid ninja looting in game.
Should you require further assistance, please submit another help request the next time you are online. We hope you continue to enjoy your experience in World of Warcraft!
For any game play questions, please refer to our site at http://www.blizzard.com/support/wowgm/
*** Please do not respond to this email as all conversations on this matter would be best handled online. ***
Regards,
xxxxx
Game Master
Blizzard Entertainment
www.worldofwarcraft.com
But...that's what I did! I used in game channels to specify the loot rules! What the heck!
