DPS meters, Gearscore, etc killing WoW?

#0 - Oct. 19, 2009, 8:04 p.m.

First of all, this thread is meant to be a mature discussion. Of course this is my sole opinion and everyone is entitled to one. Please feel free to discuss your agreements or disagreements after the jump.

I should rephrase the headliner to DPS Meters, Gearscore, Achievements, Armory etc. making WoW community in game less about community and more about stats and individual achievements?

To those of us who started in the first year of WoW it felt more like a community. Everyone was willing to group up with one another, regardless of stats. Now it feels like the racial divide we had in the mid-20th Century in the US, geared vs under-geared characters. Instead of race, its all about statistics of each character. If your character doesn't match what the raid leader is looking for then you are SOL.

WoW feels more anti-social. If you don't have the right gear, DPS, HPS, DEF cap on a tank, achievements etc you are not part of the in crowd. Of course, I'm mainly referring to raids but in any case small other nit-picky things apply as well. It varies by server.

Blizz what can you do to change this? I want WoW to feel like it was in year one where we can communicate with everyone. We want a real community back not a segregation. Please bring back the feel of joy again. I'm sure everyone at one point or another in their WoW experience have been singled out due to one of the above mentioned. I'm sure you devs and mods have too. Too many times I hear:

1. No "vent"rilo, no loot

2. Whats your DPS?

3. Checking Armory/Geaerschore before invite

4. PST w/ achievement and stats or no reply

5. Must have DBMs or some other type Boss add-ons (isn't WoW easy enough?) To those that say WoW is easy, conquer raids without using any add-ons or DBM type programs. Then we'll see how easy this game is.

Etc etc.....

I suggest WoW devs create an achievement that detects the whole raid not using any add-ons when completing a raid. That would be the true "Tribute to Insanity" achievement. No DBMs, no custom UI's, no DPS meters, threat meters and so on. They are basically the cheat codes of WoW (up up down down left right left right). Bring the player not the add-ons.

Players mentality are too reliant on the above mentioned. I hope a mod or dev sees at least the point of my post and understand what I'm trying to say. Make WoW feel like a community again and not dependent on statistics. Thats all I am asking.

Thank you for reading to those who did not TL;DR

As a quote from WoW devs, Bring the "Player" not the "Character(Class)."

EDIT: Edited for minor errors.

Zarhym

#13 - Oct. 19, 2009, 8:34 p.m.

Q u o t e:
1. No "vent"rilo, no loot

2. Whats your DPS?

3. Checking Armory/Geaerschore before invite

4. PST w/ achievement and stats or no reply

5. Must have DBMs or some other type Boss add-ons (isn't WoW easy enough?) To those that say WoW is easy, conquer raids without using any add-ons or DBM type programs. Then we'll see how easy this game is.

Anything that's going to help determine a group's preparedness, experience, coordination, and synergy is going to promote success. If you think these systems of measurement are destroying the game, I suggest you put together a raid for 25-player Ulduar or Trial of the Crusader. I suggest you put forth no criteria for players that must be met in order to be invited to the raid. I suggest you tell them there will be no vent or raid warnings for coordinating during boss fights. Get back to me with your results. :)

Zarhym

#17 - Oct. 19, 2009, 8:36 p.m.

Q u o t e:
Lead your own group. 9 out of 10 players are more willing to join then they are to lead. You can make your own group, go run the instance, and then come back to trade and laugh at the guy asking for 4k+ Gearscore for H-VH still looking for a group.

It seems somewhat ridiculous to me that people hate an addon that is being abused by a few self-righteous individuals when the simple solution is being slightly proactive about your gaming experience.

Well said.

Zarhym

#60 - Oct. 19, 2009, 9:02 p.m.

Q u o t e:
I see a lot more noise about this on the forums than in game.

I agree completely. I see people saying "must be geared/have achievements" when looking for raid members. This isn't fundamentally different from the way the game has always been. Suddenly it's just become a huge topic of discussion on the forums.

I strongly disagree that this shows the sense of community on a given realm is diminished, or that players have lost their heart. I would also disagree with those arguing that they don't have the opportunity to get geared because people don't run the content they need to run to obtain the gear they need. I see raids going for all instances across several realms. I see more people running Heroics now than ever.

If anything, we're probably seeing more discussion about this because more raids are being done in pick-up groups, or partial pick-up groups. In the original game and the first expansion, raiding was primarily a guild thing. It required a set group of players with synergy and a commitment to succeed. Naturally, now that content is more accessible to more players, you're going to see more open judgment of players as raid groups are being filled. This is the way it's always been, except it used to take place primarily within the guild rather than within the realm.

Zarhym

#69 - Oct. 19, 2009, 9:07 p.m.

Q u o t e:

What's your reasoning behind these criteria being demanded for 5 man heroics?

There's no good reason for that. Sure, a good chunk of players wants to blow through Heroics farming emblems and don't want fresh 80's holding them back. I'd still argue it's not going to make it exceptionally difficult to find a reasonable group for Heroics. I still PUG a lot of Heroics and meet plenty of perfectly cordial folks.

Zarhym

#83 - Oct. 19, 2009, 9:17 p.m.

Q u o t e:

Damn Zar, you are really going after the gear score threads today.

Because every day I play the game I see fairly reasonable requests from players looking for groups. I join groups here and there with little strife or disagreements amongst the players with whom I'm grouped, or interested in grouping. I feel I have greater access to a wider array of content than ever before. I've been able to gear up multiple 80's fairly quickly and have had a lot of fun doing it.

Then I come to the forums on Monday. After reading a few heated threads, it's as though there's this monster within World of Warcraft pushing against the majority of the player base -- a player base consisting of gamers who are all amazing at their class and perfectly ready to conquer any content thrown at them, but just can't because the big boys won't give them a chance.

It's like we're playing different games here. The one I play is fun.

Zarhym

#163 - Oct. 19, 2009, 10:23 p.m.

Q u o t e:

So what's your GS, Zarhym? :D

I haven't checked. I will say that on my alt 80 I'm currently playing, I cleared 25-player Naxxramas once and ran a bunch of Heroics before clearing 10-player Trial of the Crusader next. After that, I killed Ignus and Iron Council on this alt in 10-player Ulduar, as I jumped into a raid where all other bosses (aside from Ignus) prior to Iron Council were down. I've cleared to Anub'Arak in 25-player Trial of the Crusader so far (my first week in the 25-player instance).

For the most part, this wasn't from guildies carrying me through to get gear. I hit 80, did everything I could to gear up through crafted items and reputation rewards before jumping into PUG Heroics, then almost immediately jumped into my Trial of the Crusader guild run. Never before in World of Warcraft's history would this type of progression on a fresh 80 have been possible.

Someone said I came off as an elitist in this thread or another today. The notion tickled me. I never had the time or patience to get into a hardcore progression guild in the past. Now, since I'm not interested in doing hard modes, I don't really need to apply to a guild like that anymore. I can experience more content than ever before on my own time. If I'm an elitist because I look up popular or proven talent builds, gear choices, and glyphs, then so be it. I want to do everything in my power to make sure skill is not the determining factor in my game play. I can accept that gear might be for certain instances or encounters, but then I know I have multiple avenues to rectify that with a relatively small amount of time invested.

Zarhym

#184 - Oct. 19, 2009, 10:38 p.m.

Civility folks. It goes a long way. Regardless of whether you disagree with the original poster or me, he did ask to have a civil discussion. The thread took a turn in the wrong direction around page 7. If you want to keep posting, find more appropriate ways of expressing yourself. If you can't make an argument without throwing around insults, you're in league with the gear score elitists you admonish.

Zarhym

#187 - Oct. 19, 2009, 10:47 p.m.

Q u o t e:

I read this...
But all i see is this...
ARE YOU SERIOUS?

If that's all you see, of course you're confused. You took one line out of context and chastised me for it. If you read those other words that surrounded that sentence, you'd probably catch my meaning that I make sure my skill is always top-notch. It means that, depending on my class and talent specialization, I'll have the necessary gems, glyphs, enchants, talent build, and rotation to maximize whatever role it is I'm filling. Even then, there will be fights where I'll under-perform if my gear isn't good enough.

I don't ever want to be told I'm inadequate for a role because I can't grasp the concept of an encounter, do not know what stats are best for me, am not using the appropriate abilities at the appropriate time, etc. If someone tells me my gear isn't quite good enough to do what I'm trying to do, then I'll probably accept that. So far it hasn't happened.

Zarhym

#191 - Oct. 19, 2009, 10:53 p.m.

Q u o t e:

Good thing you can read /*teeheehee*] What was said is

in response to

read ALL of the post being responded to

Now if you put try to put a TotC25 together stating anyone regardless of gear or experience can enter you will get a *not nice* geared group that most likely hasn't even read up the boss fights, now you will trust these *lolipops* to somehow pull off the *teamwork* without you guiding these *pony princesses* through vent or raid warnings * believe it*

Edit: Now with 100% more rainbows and huggles

Thanks. Your word choice was a little more colorful than mine, but a lot of people misunderstood my original statement to mean that a group needs X amount of addons to succeed. My comments were more in response to the complaints about certain criteria being required. If a raid leader has no care for what a player is wearing or how much experience that player has -- and doesn't feel the need to enter Ulduar or Trial of the Crusader with a number of complete strangers and no voice option for coordinating things -- the chances of success are slim.