Titans Path, explanation please!

Q u o t e:
This is largely speculation, but from what I understand, it's not something that's "grindy" - it's something you just get by playing at the end game. So doing raids or PvP or instances would increase your character along the path, with some cap on how much you can accomplish per week if you're the type that plays 9 hours a day.

Strawberry is on the right track here.

Philosophically, it works like this. Leveling up is fun. You get new gear constantly, and every time you ding, you get new stats, new ranks of spells and possibly new spells. You improve every single hour you play, if not more frequently.

When you hit max level, this really slows down. If you raid or PvP you might get a new item once a week if you're lucky, and aside from gear, rewards are very infrequent.

The idea behind the paths is to offer max-level character progression over time that isn't tied to gear.

The feature is much more robust than this, but at a very conceptual level imagine that at level 85 you got a new talent point every week just for logging in. The rewards are slower than during the leveling period, but they are rewards that exist independent of gear. However on the other hand, you don't feel the need to race through them (in fact you can't) if you are focused on getting to max level and they don't bloat your spellbook with as many abilities as gaining actual whole levels (though they will add a few). Over time, the actual discussions about how to build a character will likely change and evolve in interesting ways. The new point might give you a reason to log in on non-raid nights or even if you've gotten a little burned out on raiding.

The mantra is "gated, not grindy." They will require you to do something, but they are also designed with the idea that you can't kill yourself trying to blast through them as fast as possible.

Q u o t e:
Aren't you concerned that this makes leveling and gearing a new character even WORSE than it already is?

Adding a new expansion does that automatically. We think 5 levels + paths is certainly easier than 10 levels, but we'll see how it shakes out.

Q u o t e:
Ah so you can't get the ancient glyphs before 85? Are they all obtained through Archaeology?

You have to be 85. Our plan is to tie it to Archaeology, but that could change. While fishing can be challenging to max out, cooking isn't all that hard and first aid is pretty easy. Archaeology could be anywhere in there.

Q u o t e:
Here is to hoping it will be alt friendly!

Cataclysm is pretty alt friendly over all. We'll do things that encourage and facilitate alts when it makes sense.

Q u o t e:
You aren't *really* going to score a new talent point every week just for logging in every week. You're going to get it via Archaeology and whatever related activities there are - crafting, daily/weekly quests, etc.

GC simply used the over-simplified "just for logging-in scenario" so the analogy wouldn't get bogged down in details.

Right, though just because you have to do "something" doesn't mean you are going to be grinding Sons of Hodir rep or needing the equivalent of 100 Crusader seals.

Q u o t e:
There's a difference between "We do not want all classes to end up with the same abilities" and "We do want all players to be roughly on par for this particular aspect of progression"

Yes. As you can see from this thread, any time we add more stuff to do, you see some players say "Awesome! I love doing stuff!" and other player saying "No, no I have too much stuff to do already." Our design for gear progression is generally to let the best players get the best stuff sooner, but let other players catch up. Catch up mechanisms are good for the game.

Q u o t e:
That would be why you can only gain a certain limit each week and to a certain point each patch.
You would have plenty of time to level a character.

Exactly. We don't want you to ever fall too far behind.

Q u o t e:
Basically, this example says "get to max level within a week of release or don't even bother since you can never catch up."

No, that's the exact opposite of what we're saying. We're saying even if someone beats you to level 85, they can't get very far ahead of you on paths. Imagine that when a new rank is available, the previous rank becomes half price or something.

Q u o t e:
By putting in gates or staged openings, you're taking options away from the player without giving any back.

Your point of view is as someone eager and capable of taking advantage of the new content. Other players feel like releasing an entire raid tier at once gives them no options because then they feel like they have to go raid a lot or risk falling way behind. Consider: a group of very hardcore raiders approached me at Blizzcon and asked that we not have two tiers of raid content available when Catacylsm ships because then they won't be able to enjoy the first tier (or even leveling). Seemingly ironically, they would lose options by us making more content available.

Q u o t e:
I have to ask, is there a problem with individuals who want to go out and blast through things like the Titan Path as quickly as possible?

No, but we offer many avenues in the game for them to do that. We don't think every avenue in the game needs to have the option of a super fast pace with an air of competition to complete it the fastest. You can hit 85 as fast as you want and we won't throw too many barriers in your way.

Q u o t e:
The idea is nice but putting time restrictions on it makes it a big CON instead a pro.

Ulduar wasn't available when Lich king shipped. There was a time restriction preventing you from going into it for many months. Even when you could go in, you couldn't kill XT a dozen times a week even if you had the inclination and time. Most epic gear works that way. We wanted to try a system with a similar form of progression but wasn't gear.

Q u o t e:
I really don't agree with this idea. I think you are operating under the gross assumption that many people enjoy leveling up. While their first characters might be entertaining due to the experiences being new, I believe that to many people leveling up can be an annoying and exhausting experience.

Both cases are true. Leveling can be a chore to some players and is absolutely thrilling for others. The dichotomy is one reason we decided to try 5 levels.

P.S. I wouldn't expect a ton of information on the new features overall, but I thought it might be helpful to clarify some of what we said at Blizzcon.

Q u o t e:
Hey GC well it be possible for those of us with Dual specs to have one Path for our primary spec and a different Path for our secondary spec?

Yes.

Q u o t e:
I think adding this second talent tree to the game, one that requires leveling each time, is only going to discourage experimenting with specs, roles, and enjoying various aspects of the game.

It doesn't require leveling each time. Imagine it's more like earning character levels and less like giving up a tradeskill. Once you have unlocked something you can switch to it (for perhaps a nominal fee). Once you have made progress, it never goes away.

Q u o t e:
-Are the different paths going to be geared towards specific roles, or rather a specific theme/function? IE Will Golganeth (sp?) be the tank path of choice, or would it generally be geared towards someone who wants to pick up mitigation for PvP, take less collateral damage in raids, and of course tanks? Will Eonar just be for healers? Etc.

We want there to be a lot of debate about the best path per class. It's probable that one will still be annointed as "the best" but hopefully you'll have as much flexibility as you do with picking which tradeskill goes best with your class or whether Aldor vs. Scryer was the more optimized pick.

Q u o t e:
1.) If I as a player choose path A am I locked into that path without question(without having to start all over)? The bigger issue here: I have a pvp spec and a pve spec if I can only do 1 path at a time and 1 is better for PvP than PvE I now have to choose which I want to do because it is "gated".

We might allow you to unlock one rank at a time but switch the glyph in that rank per spec. Not sure yet. Certainly by the time most of the ranks have been unlocked you'll be able to have your PvP and PvE choices.

Q u o t e:
2.) Is this just a new requirement to raid? (meaning well this is going to be another defacto standard just like being geared for the instance)

It might be. We're not sure yet. Not many raids will kick say the main tank that chose Inscription instead of Jewelcrafting. They might kick you if you have suspiciously low health, but they are unlikely to kick you if you have a couple of unusual talent choices. Even having many path ranks unlocked won't hold a candle to knowing what you're doing on a given fight.

Q u o t e:
3.) By making it gated am I "locked" out of leveling an alt later on: In today's environment you can ask a group of friends to run you through Naxx 10 quick and your alt is magically geared up to start doing other instances by doing gated items it doesn't matter you are going to have to wait X amount of weeks to be up to par.

That is already true today since e.g. some of the more powerful enchants have rep requirements and badges are still bop. Certainly you can get a leg up on leveling an alt by doing a milk run through an easy instance, but that doesn't mean that character will be as powerful as the character of someone who has no alts and focuses all of their time in game on one character. We try to prevent there being the one right way to play WoW: we don't want the one main or the 20 alts to be the "bad way" to play. We try to offer things for both types of player.

Q u o t e:
What I'm gathering from this thread is that ultimately hard core players will not have anything to do after they clear through things because Blizzard does not want to produce content too quickly so as "not to leave people behind." This seems fine for the casual audience, but what about those hard core players who want to play the game constantly? MMOs have existed for quite some time as a massive time sink, but more and more players seem to be having the option to use World of Warcraft as a time sink being removed.

We offer new raid content as frequently as we can. Our model is to about three major content patches (new raid tiers / PvP seasons) per expansion. There will always be players who devour content as quickly as you offer it and just want more. That's one of the laws of MMO design. :)

Q u o t e:
You will have the 1st rank cost maybe 50 somethings and the 2nd, new rank cost 100 somethings. Will someone that jsut hit level 80 be able to buy both and "catch up" for 150 somethings.

Our usual operating procedure is you can catch up to the previous tier pretty easily but the most dedicated or experienced players get first crack at the new tier.

Q u o t e:
Just to put my 2 cents in on the issues but making a trade skill mandatory for character advancement is a rather lame move. Some people (like myself) really dislike tradeskills in general, and forcing one upon them is not gonna go over well.

That is a risk. However you are already less optimal than other players if you choose to forego all tradeskills since they carry selfish perks that you can't get from other players. This may make Archaeology more mandatory than say Cooking. On the other hand, we want this to be a compelling feature, which usually means that it needs to affect player power.

Q u o t e:
I have a MT for my guild. I want him to be as progressed as possible for each level of content, thus I try to get him all the gear/skills/enchants asap. When something is a "daily" it makes me feel the "need" to log on each day to have all the triumphs possible etc. What I, and I'm sure others would like is for a way to have things more on a weekly scale. I know I have plenty of time to run 7 "dailys" in the week. Just doing 1 per day is not always allowable with family life.

We actually agree with that. Raid resets are set to weekly scales for that reason. Dungeon dailies are every day, but you aren't going to be crazy behind if you don't do those constantly. The people who run them every day will eventually cap out with what they want to purchase.