Shadowfrost again...Seriously...

#0 - Aug. 19, 2009, 7:42 p.m.

Well now that Scourge Strike has been made 100% worthless, and no one is specing into it anymore, a new Shadowfrost spec has returned, and is proving to be superior to a unholy strike based build.

Unlike the previous season 5 faceroll shadowfrost it has no burst, but on the flip side has unrelenting pressure.

It's currently the best damage unholy spec for pve and pvp focusing completely on disease applicators and deathcoil spam because strike damage is far to low as Unholy.

So is Blizzard ever going to step up to the plate when it comes to this spec and fix the core damage problems that has plagued it since beta?

#1. Cleansing Totem/Abolish Disease are FAR to crippling to the Death Knight class. This isn't a situation of "lawlz you don't want to be countered" it's a situation of now that damage is so neutered that easy removal of DK diseases is unfair, and unbalanced. As long as diseases are EASILY removed and/or have 55% or more of the DKs strike damage tied to them these disease applicator specs are going to continue to be used.

#2. Scourge Strike needs a complete redesign if you are not able to balance it as a magical damage strike. Make it a buff like Ret Seals or give it a secondary affect that provides a penalty for disease removal

#3. Currently Death Coil + Unholy Blight running a 0/19/52 spec does almost 30% more damage then scourge strike in pvp. In pve a 0/17/54 spec death coil with SoVH is doing almost 40% more damage then scourge strike, and 32% more damage then Obliterate even with 25% armor penetration.

#4. The results of this is now that 0/17/54 disease application spec DWing provides a higher damage output in pve then a strike based builds means Unholy DKs are tied to 2pc t8 FOREVER, on top of this once the player base catches up to EJ and AJ and figures out that disease application spam is the way to go almost no one is going to ever spec into Scourge Strike again...

Please fix what you broke.... Step up to the plate, it's ridiculous that not only have the Devs not commented about this spec breaking situation, but there are no plans at all to address it in 3.2.2.

Ghostcrawler

#93 - Aug. 19, 2009, 9:20 p.m.

Die, Shadowfrost. Die. Die. Don't come back.

Ghostcrawler

#125 - Aug. 19, 2009, 10:26 p.m.

Q u o t e:
Then stop making primary strikes inferior to disease builders >_>

That was a direct response to the diseaseless rotations that just spammed strikes. Because DKs use a pseudo combo point system (in that they can use their "finishers" whenever they want), things have strayed into ignoring the finishers or over-utilizing them from time to time.

I suspect it has more to do with the difficulty of keeping diseases up in a PvP environment coupled with the benefits of ranged attacks. The IT glyph is probably a little generous.

Scourge Strike falling behind Obliterate seems to be largely a function of armor pen (a problematic stat these days in many respects). It's not at all ideal, but we don't have a great plan yet to fix it that didn't involve just buffing Scourge Strike (and possibly leading to diseaselessness again).

Ghostcrawler

#128 - Aug. 19, 2009, 10:30 p.m.

Q u o t e:
What an ignorant thing to say to an actually decent post from the OP.

I don't think "ignorant" is the word your really want there. We understand the issues very well. I think we've made our stance on DKs who try to be mages pretty clear. Nobody should expect this style to stick around for long.

You can call it "sarcastic" maybe, but I still think most players will understand our reaction given the history of DKs in PvP.

Ghostcrawler

#149 - Aug. 19, 2009, 11:42 p.m.

Q u o t e:
You made us like this, so why are you making it clear that you don't want us to use our ranged attacks?

There's a big difference between using your ranged attacks and ONLY using your ranged attacks.

Ghostcrawler

#153 - Aug. 19, 2009, 11:46 p.m.

Q u o t e:
The damage on Scourge Strike is very, very poor. It's so poor -- even when compared to an Obliterate hitting a plate target -- that Death Coil is outdamaging it. Given that Death Coil needs RP to function, it has become more efficient for Death Knights to use Icy Touch and Plague Strike to apply diseases, deal a modicum of damage, and build RP for Death Coils as opposed to using Scourge Strike which doesn't apply disease (and is, in fact, dependent on them), only deals a little more damage than IT + PS, and builds less RP even without the IT glyph.

I don't think that's the whole issue. If Obliterate just beat Scourge Strike, then Unholy DKs might be using Oblit in PvP. Instead they're going to Icy Touch and Death Coil. Death Coil is supposed to be a bonus, not the centerpiece of the class.

Ghostcrawler

#155 - Aug. 19, 2009, 11:46 p.m.

Q u o t e:
P.S. Thanks for saving me the wait in line at the BlizzCon Q&A's. You were totally gonna get asked about this there, but I'm good now =P

Oh, I'll still get asked it. :)