#38 - Aug. 18, 2009, 12:45 a.m.
Q u o t e:
It just feels like ranged dps has been normalized to 30 yards (minimum). Many raid encounters require you to stand at max range in order to avoid ambient damage or to endanger the tanks/melee with debuffs.
But this is kind of the argument I’m trying to discourage. That’s like saying bosses have armor, so classes that do a lot of magical damage are inherently overpowered. Your weakness in one area (in this case range) is supposed to be made up for by strengths in other areas (say dots ticking while you move). If Shadow priests were at a horrible disadvantage because of their short range, then we’d likely make adjustments. But Shadow does totally reasonable dps on most fights and really high dps on a few. Most raids are thrilled to have Shadow priests. While there are things we can improve with the spec (like we can with every spec), we don't think the range is a huge liability (and you do even have a solution if you can't stand it).
Q u o t e:
Classic case of using a glyph to fix a bad spell that we were told the devs do not wish to do.
I see this kind of response a lot, but don’t quite get it. Let’s consider for a moment a glyph that improves your damage. Your class is balanced around the use of that glyph. Why? Because the alternative is you are balanced without that glyph, and then when you take the glyph you do more damage than everyone else. What fun! Yet if glyphs didn't improve damage (or healing or whatever) then they would feel merely cosmetic, like shirts or companion pets. With Mind Flay, you are arguing as if the glyph brings it from a negative number back up to baseline. But that doesn’t really make sense. It is making your spell better – it is a buff.
Now, where I think there are some valid complaints are on the topic of glyph choice. For DPS specs, someone is going to prove (or strongly suggest) which glyphs provide the most DPS, and raid-focused players are going to tend to take those. It would be nice if you truly had the freedom to pick whatever glyph you wanted. But it would be nice if you truly had the freedom to pick whatever talent specs you wanted too. We'll try to improve both over time, but I don't really get the "I shouldn't have to take that glyph" arguments.
Q u o t e:
I think a lot of people are over-analyzing what GC said. He didn't say that it's never okay to make a class comparison. He said that people focus too much on class comparisons and end up forgetting about the feedback that is really the most important anyway, which is feedback regarding how their own class plays and the problems it has.
His point about assuming there's only one class is meant as a tool to help people break a bad habit, not as an absolute rule. It's like when English teachers tell people not to end sentences with prepositions. It's not really the case that it's never okay to do that, but thinking that way helps eliminate a lot of cases where it is bad.
But obviously he doesn't mean that every thread has to assume only one class. Some issues people have are *with* other classes, so they'd have to at least acknowledge the others. But remember the context -- GC was addressing the "my class is the only one that has to put up with this" argument. That actually isn't very helpful most of the time, as being the only class that has to put up with something doesn't mean that it is unreasonable to put up with it.
Instead, you can just focus on why putting up with it is a negative experience. Adding the fact that you're the only one who has this experience doesn't advance things in the developer's eyes, because even if everyone had to live with a horrible mechanic, they wouldn't avoid changing it for that reason.
Yeah, that was really my point. A lot of posters seem to just be comparing spells, noting where their spells appear to get the short end of the stick, and then campaigning to change that. But classes aren’t balanced around their individual spells. They are balanced around the total package, which includes their other spells, their talent trees and their gear (which includes glyphs). I saw a post this weekend where someone asked why we kept buffing a class’s strengths instead of buffing their weaknesses. The answer is because we think class decision is boring when everyone’s pros and cons are so similar.
Maybe this wasn't the OP's intent at all, but I was thrown by the assumption that "spells are supposed to work from 30 yards. This one doesn't so it must be broken." I hate to think that we can only have two ranges for our abilities -- melee or 30 yards.
