[Mage]'s Are sunwell'd again. RE: GC

#0 - Aug. 7, 2009, 5:02 p.m.

Dear ghost crawler,

The mage class is largely, and once again being left behind. Thanks to your nerf, mage single target damage is not longer competitive. Your philosophy with "bring the player not the class" no longer applies to mages as only one mage is being brought for int and food just like sunwell. The mage class is at an all time low for PvE representation.

If you don't want the mage class to do damage...why have it at all? I'd much rather you delete the class entirely rather than try to justify our presence in raids with 'utility'. It isn't working. It will continue to not work, you favor warlock imbalance continuously and yet you always find time to make sure mages will never out dps an average dk player with way less skill, a terribad rogue who face rolls 3 buttons, or even a crappy ass warlock who has instant casts that do more damage than a frost fire crit and a hotstreak pyro follow up.

Feel free to respond ghost crawler, the mage community is anxious to hear if we are to be trampled further beneath other pure classes' feet.

Ghostcrawler

#34 - Aug. 7, 2009, 9:35 p.m.

Q u o t e:
and the officialy dps count for mages below in dps than all other pur dps classes and 2 hybrid classes.

There is no "official dps count" and this is why. :)

Mages aren't going to be top dps on every encounter, but they're usually up there. We're not at all worried about a Sunwell situations where mages were routinely replaced with warlocks (which let's not forget was partially because warlocks buffed Shadow damage instead of damage). I think this particular card is being overplayed.

Ghostcrawler

#173 - Aug. 8, 2009, 12:35 a.m.

We would like to get Arcane back up there. The Living Bomb change is just going to be another reason not to play Arcane -- we get that.

I'm not sure it's possible to get Arcane to within 5% or 1% of Fire, but if we get it close enough then players who just really love Arcane will still be able to play it without feeling they are making a bad mistake. Frost is even more challenging to get up there, but we aren't giving up on the idea.

It is a nice goal in rainbow unicorn land to may Frost, Fire and Arcane do identical dps in all situations, but we try and be realistic about our chances for that. Especially among pure classes (but even between say warrior trees) one spec will likely win. That's cool. It doesn't mean the "loser" has to be way, way behind.

Ghostcrawler

#175 - Aug. 8, 2009, 12:39 a.m.

Q u o t e:
"Sunwelling" was an extremely specific case in BC where any single warlock was equal to a mage, or at least somewhere abouts. The problem was that bringing in ANOTHER warlock made both of their dps increase. Bringing a third warlock made all three of their dps increase. They also had amazing synergy with shadow priests. Then there was Curse of... Shadow? It only affected shadow and frost damage, so it didn't help mages at all unless they could beg a warlock to put up curse of elements (at a dps loss to that warlock).

Mages and warlocks fulfilled the exact same roles in their group, so their interchangeability and the warlocks' stupid good synergy led to mages being replaced by the warlocks. It had very little to do with mage dps being "low".

So, if mage dps is in fact low for whatever reason... it wouldn't lead to "sunwelling".

Communism's definition of Sunwelling is the one we use. In a world where (say it in the movie preview announcer's voice) raid buffs aren't so specialized and affect the whole raid, I don't think this situation is likely to happen again. In fact, that is partially why they were changed.

Ghostcrawler

#194 - Aug. 8, 2009, 12:54 a.m.

Q u o t e:

We're.... talking about Fire's damage, GC.

Players are posting about lots of different things in this thread. They often do. I was responding to a few comments about Arcane's place in all of this. I have seen a few comments in other threads that improving Living Bomb makes Arcane less attractive. Because I can't afford to respond to every thread, I try to address topics when I respond and not just the current thread. Our blue comments get reposted and linked a lot. We are often speaking to a much greater audience than the current thread posters.

Q u o t e:
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Q u o t e:
That's a load of crap, I know arcane is low but not that low and i am 100% sure Arcane is not low as demonology/ret/boomkin or any of the other pure specs
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I'm sorry, but you're completely wrong about that. First of all, Arcane should be better than Retribution or Balance because those are hybrid specs. Second, it's not. There's really no debate about that.

Ghostcrawler

#200 - Aug. 8, 2009, 12:57 a.m.

Q u o t e:
2. I'd be pissed if I was Luph. He made about three dozen thoughtful topics about Arcane and not one of them got an acknowledgment, but a topic about Fire gets a post about Arcane. That's just mean!

This is not a competition to see who can get the blue acknowledgement. We read all of the comments that get posted here. I understand we're all gamers here, but I would not try too hard to "solve the puzzle" for why we might respond to one thread and not another.

When we post, we tend to address topics, not threads.

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Ghostcrawler

#206 - Aug. 8, 2009, 1:01 a.m.

Q u o t e:
if you wanna talk to ppl that are not the posters, make an annoucement, reply on a proper thread, just dont answer about arcane on a thread that 98% of the posts talk about fire, pease.

The topic was on mage dps, and it was even addressed to me (even though it's not supposed to be). Let's quibble less about where I am allowed to post please.

If players continue to complain about where I post, I am pretty confident the outcome will be no posting at all (and not necessarily by my choice).

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