The Real Top Mage Questions

#0 - June 19, 2009, 7:42 a.m.

Here's the deal, GC. Mages have 2 major problems going for them:
1) Their dps is low on many fights.
2) They have an absolute ton of other problems.

From what I understand #1 is really, really hard to fix. Like playing chess blindfolded against a super-intelligent robot using only pawns. Mostly because nobody can agree on how much damage any class should be doing at any given time. It's like quantum physics or something.

But #2... Suffice to say, if you worked on #2, we'd probably be more forgiving of a slower, more organized approach to #1.

Now, I know what you are thinking. #2 has like a bajillionâ„¢ things in it. It probably does. But most of them are significantly less subjective than #1. In fact, you don't necessarily have to have all the answers right now. You might not even agree with us. But, acknowledging the actual issues is far better than where we stand right now.

You've seen the general response to your Q&A. It's not pretty. That really can't be helped at this point. But you can manage the fallout. Below are a fair sampling of the actual questions the Mage commmunity has. It's not neccessarily complete (and I know that everyone will let me know what I missed), but it's a start.

Here's what we'd like to see for these questions:
A) I don't understand the question.
B) I don't feel the question is fair (and here's why).
C) I understand your question but development has a different view (and here's why).
D) I understand your question and agree. However, we don't consider it a high priority and do not have an ETA.
E) I understand your question and agree. We consider it a high priority and would like to have it resolved soonâ„¢.

Expanding on them would be nice, but honestly, we'll take what we can get.

Q1: Mages in general are not pleased with the seeming lack of control on their damage output. This is most noticeable in the case of fire mages. A complete dependence on RNG-based procs combined with a lack of worthwhile cooldowns leads to a "spray-and-pray" approach to casting. When can mages expect more control on their output?

Q2: On the subject of worthwhile cooldowns, when can we expect Combustion to be reviewed? It's currently very buggy and, even if it worked correctly, as crit percentages scale higher, it generally becomes a waste of a talent point.

Q3: The patch notes you have released show a combination of factors that will reduce mana availability to mages. This tells us that you feel that mages currently raiding Ulduar have a surplus of mana. Is this the case? If not, are we going to see more steps taken before 3.2 releases to provide additional mana resources?

Q4: Mages feel that Mana Gems and Healthstones should not share a cooldown as we are the only class in the game currently forced to choose on this matter (and with the apparent intent of our mana regen mechanics, it is not a choice at all.) When can we expect these to be unlinked?

Q5: Mage AoE is limited by the ground-area focus and significant mana cost associated with their AoE Spells. Other classes have more flexible AoE with significantly better at-will resource regeneration (i.e. Life Tap, AotV). This causes mages to be excluded from planning for AoE phases when possible and causes the need to drink constantly on trash packs. The feeling amongst some mages is that our AoE spells should be reasonably costed but with damage balanced to the point that with few targets (say, less than 3) they are impractical due to low damage, but scale better with more targets. This would be as opposed to making them overly costly mana-wise which makes them all but unusable now. Is this something that we could reasonably see happen?

Q6: You suggest that Spell Steal could be improved with a glyph. Many mages feel that we have too many mandatory major glyphs at this point and too few useful minor glyphs. Is there any chance in this expansion of us seeing the Spell Steal as a minor glyph, or other minor glyphs in general that could provide some enhancement to the class?

Q7: Torment the Weak is considered so mandatory by both Frost and Fire players that virtually every serious raiding mage in those specs has 18 points in Arcane despite having to waste points in the lower tiers for talents that have absolutely no benefit (not bad talents, just not relevant in any way to Frost or Fire). Additionally, on fights where we are forced to target non-snared mobs (think Kologarns arms), mages dps suffers heavily. The last time we saw a talent this mandatory was with Evocation. If mage dps is so dependant upon this talent, shouldn't we be expecting for it to be removed entirely, mage baseline dps improved, and the lower tiers of arcane spruced up with some more inviting talents?

Ghostcrawler

#8 - June 19, 2009, 9:42 a.m.

Q u o t e:
You've seen the general response to your Q&A. It's not pretty. That really can't be helped at this point. But you can manage the fallout. Below are a fair sampling of the actual questions the Mage commmunity has. It's not neccessarily complete (and I know that everyone will let me know what I missed), but it's a start.

That response really isn’t too surprising. Players tend to get upset unless whatever the most important question to them (or perhaps even the question they asked) gets answered. Hopefully it did reach enough players who had questions about the direction of the class. Those types don’t always post to say “Thanks for the Q&A.” People on forums, by and large, are those with an axe to grind. :)

I can’t answer all of these questions, for the same reason we couldn’t answer all of the submitted ones, but I’ll answer a few.

Q u o t e:
Q1: Mages in general are not pleased with the seeming lack of control on their damage output. This is most noticeable in the case of fire mages. A complete dependence on RNG-based procs combined with a lack of worthwhile cooldowns leads to a "spray-and-pray" approach to casting. When can mages expect more control on their output?

I think this phenomenon is overstated. The reason I say that is I know of mages who consistently outperform other mages with very similar gear (even within the same raid, when presumably buffs and leadership are constant). You could argue that the random numbers just always line up for them every time, but I don’t find that argument compelling.

Q u o t e:
Q3: The patch notes you have released show a combination of factors that will reduce mana availability to mages. This tells us that you feel that mages currently raiding Ulduar have a surplus of mana. Is this the case? If not, are we going to see more steps taken before 3.2 releases to provide additional mana resources?

I worded that answer poorly. The point I was trying to make is that our design is on challenging encounters the risk for healers running OOM should be much worse than casters running OOM. We want mages to use gems and Evocate, but if they do so reasonably well, then they should be fine on mana until the fights go for more than say 10 minutes. However, we don’t think the mage mana regen mechanics were cutting it, which is why we implemented the new mana return on Ignite. I think the patch notes said the return was 1%, but 2% might be more appropriate.

Q u o t e:
Q4: Mages feel that Mana Gems and Healthstones should not share a cooldown as we are the only class in the game currently forced to choose on this matter (and with the apparent intent of our mana regen mechanics, it is not a choice at all.) When can we expect these to be unlinked?

We will try to get them unlinked. I can’t recall if this was done for reasons of balance or kit, but it seems unnecessary.

Q u o t e:
Q5: Mage AoE is limited by the ground-area focus and significant mana cost associated with their AoE Spells. Other classes have more flexible AoE with significantly better at-will resource regeneration (i.e. Life Tap, AotV). This causes mages to be excluded from planning for AoE phases when possible and causes the need to drink constantly on trash packs. The feeling amongst some mages is that our AoE spells should be reasonably costed but with damage balanced to the point that with few targets (say, less than 3) they are impractical due to low damage, but scale better with more targets. This would be as opposed to making them overly costly mana-wise which makes them all but unusable now. Is this something that we could reasonably see happen?

I really don’t see situations where mages are not taken seriously as AE classes. Yes, some classes have higher burst AE on some trash packs. Mages still do great with Blizzard, and with the Ignite change we might even see a return of Flamestrike on some pulls.

Q u o t e:
Q6: You suggest that Spell Steal could be improved with a glyph. Many mages feel that we have too many mandatory major glyphs at this point and too few useful minor glyphs. Is there any chance in this expansion of us seeing the Spell Steal as a minor glyph, or other minor glyphs in general that could provide some enhancement to the class?

I was throwing that out there as a possible experiment. We intended Spell Steal to be a way to get a useful buff from an enemy. In practice it has become more of a generic dispel. Changing that could be both a buff or a nerf to mages depending on the situation.

Ghostcrawler

#9 - June 19, 2009, 9:42 a.m.

Q u o t e:
Q7: Torment the Weak is considered so mandatory by both Frost and Fire players that virtually every serious raiding mage in those specs has 18 points in Arcane despite having to waste points in the lower tiers for talents that have absolutely no benefit (not bad talents, just not relevant in any way to Frost or Fire). Additionally, on fights where we are forced to target non-snared mobs (think Kologarns arms), mages dps suffers heavily. The last time we saw a talent this mandatory was with Evocation. If mage dps is so dependant upon this talent, shouldn't we be expecting for it to be removed entirely, mage baseline dps improved, and the lower tiers of arcane spruced up with some more inviting talents?

It’s hard to persuade us that mandatory talents are a bad thing. The alternative is that talent specs aren’t compelling because you could throw darts at your trees and have a viable spec. Furthermore, once you chill out a mandatory talent, then the next most powerful one is considered mandatory. I can’t think of a single talent tree for any class without a mandatory talent. It only becomes a problem when the character is severely restricted in being able to get fun utility talents because so many talents are tied up in the mandatory ones. But even in this situation I doubt mages are alone.

Q u o t e:
Q8: You have told us that "Arcane is a little bloated." But unlike with Shaman, you've provided little explanation as to what you would like to see happen with this tree to correct some of the bloat. Can you give us examples of some of the changes we could expect to see?

I am reluctant to do this because then if the changes did not materialize in the next patch, Arcane mages might be upset. In the Q&A I believe I mentioned Prot warrior and Ret paladin of models of how we would like to see all of the talent trees – very thin with an almost inability to spend all of your points in one tree.

Q u o t e:
Q10: You seem to insinuate that Mirror Image actually reduces threat when all current data shows it as nothing more than a fade. If Mirror Image actually reduced threat generated while active, it would be a vast improvement. Can we ever expect to see this functionality? Can we ever expect it to come back off the GCD?

Mirror Image divides your threat among the images. I thought this was well known unless I am misunderstanding the question.

EDIT: This is wrong and I am a fool. :)

Q u o t e:
Q12: If you are going to continue to have longer fights, why do mana gems have charges? Really.

You are supposed to have to manage your mana. You are not supposed to routinely run out. As an example of this if you are in a very short fight (like a hard mod with a fast burn) you should pull out all the stops. If you know the fight is going to go long, you should pace yourself. I would consider a mage who always did the same things in every given fight to not know their class mechanics as well as they could. Realistically, we have very few ten minute fights, and most are far shorter.

Q u o t e:
Q15: Playing with Fire has always been a neat flavorful talent. But with the sorts of AoE damage flying around nowadays, it is starting to feel like too much of a liability. Why are mages unique in having a talent that actively hurts you?

Kit. Homogenization is something we struggle with a lot. We don’t like it when two classes have very similar talents, though this is understandably one of the first things players suggest when they find a talent wanting.

Ghostcrawler

#187 - June 19, 2009, 8:06 p.m.

Q u o t e:
Mirror Image divides your threat among the images. I thought this was well known unless I am misunderstanding the question.

Okay, I look like a jerk. Mirror Image doesn't work this way.

One of the designers working on the spell had this intent, but it wasn't actually implemented this way. The spell is built in a complex way and has gone through changes almost every patch and I wasn't up on the latest. My bad. I know a lot about the game, but I am also very dependent on a really sharp team. When I answer forums at 2 AM or whatever I can't use them for fact checking as much as I can at other times.

L2PGC.

Explains why it wasn't well known. :)