We pay by the month- why nerf honor gains?

Q u o t e:
OP: do you consider better honor gain rates to always be better? If you do, you're saying it would be best if you could just get all your honor gear instantly.

If you are not saying higher honor gain rates are necessarily better, then what is your argument that WG's honor production is not too high? Justify arguing against the reduction; explain why the optimum is above the level they are selecting.

This is an excellent post and might provide a more constructive outline for one to voice one's concerns over the change.

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To which I reply to all those who complain about the difficulty of certain instances. They complain, and people recognize there complaints. When an aspect of the game that some only do, and have time to do, to perpetuate this constant gear need is nerfed, the equivalent being a boss that suddenly drops 1/3rd of the gear he used to, it is more than a valid complain merely needing to be dismissed.

I understand your point, but your argument could just as easily be reversed. Perhaps that boss was dropping 1/3 more gear than could be obtained via other avenues, which has now been changed.

It depends on your perspective and whether or not you feel like Wintergrasp honor gains were no more or less convenient and efficient than honor gains in Battlegrounds. We feel honor gains were too much more efficient and convenient in Wintergrasp, but that it will remain a fun and viable means of attaining honor in addition to Battlegrounds. This is in addition to the fact that Wintergrasp winners still have access to bosses that drop very competitive PvE and PvP items.

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As opposed to the numerous threads citing outrage at the then proposed changes to wintergrasp..ohh yeah, i'm sure it'll make a huge difference..ohh wait the nerf is in...thx for listening

You act as though there's a difference between listening to, and acting upon, any suggestions or concerns we read. Some times we feel that unpopular changes are still better for the game.

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since its not in the patch notes im curious if this is true also

Lake Wintergrasp

* Wintergrasp Victory now rewards 3000 Honor. (Down from 5000 Honor)
* Wintergrasp Defeat now rewards 1250 Honor. (Down from 3000 Honor)
* Tower Damaged now grants up to 750 Honor. (Down from 1250 Honor)
* Tower Destroyed now grants up to 750 Honor. (Down from 1250 Honor)
* Damaged Building Reward now grants up to 750 Honor. (Down from 1250 Honor)
* Intact Building Defender now grants up to 1500 Honor. (Down from 2500 Honor) (Note: Currently shown as 150 Honor but most likely a typo)

We did not quote all of the numbers, but these changes were reflected in the patch notes:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=17222934690&sid=1

Q u o t e:

The bonus honor for winning the battle in Wintergrasp and controlling/destroying towers has been reduced.

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Well why not just go ahead and nerf all the honor gained in all PVP? I mean, anyone that disagrees and wishes to gain the usual amount of honor is obviously just wanting their honor gear instantly, right?

I quoted a very reasonable collection of questions that, if answered in a constructive manner, might better represent the concerns of players who feel that honor gains in Wintergrasp should not have been adjusted. You responded with absolute hyperbole. Sure I read it, but I took nothing from it.

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But that isnt the reason you nerfed WG honor and made them weekly. Why are you trying to spin this as if the nerfs were due to "too efficient honor gains in WG"?

This nerf was a horrible cheap bandaid fix to reduce the amount of players who do WG at one time in attempt to reduce the lag.

We've admitted all along that the changes were made to address multiple issues. I've stated in several threads that we hope to see participation in Wintergrasp during peak times spread out more evenly over the course of a week.

Saying that honor gains in Wintergrasp were too efficient does not make my previous statement untrue, nor the reverse.

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So you took nothing from me pointing out that the quote you reinforced is actually just a personal attack?

:S

wut

or maybe you are saying you took nothing from the quote you reinforced????

I'm well aware of what I quoted. It wasn't a personal attack. The first couple of sentences ask for clarification on what could be a fallacious argument. The original post offered nothing to address the difference in honor gains between Battlegrounds and Wintergrasp. If a person argues that the more honor they get per hour/day/week the better, and that any nerfs to those gains are bad, then it's logical to conclude that the person would just as soon be handed the items on which they want to spend that honor.

Here it is again, in all its nuance:

Q u o t e:
OP: do you consider better honor gain rates to always be better? If you do, you're saying it would be best if you could just get all your honor gear instantly.

If you are not saying higher honor gain rates are necessarily better, then what is your argument that WG's honor production is not too high? Justify arguing against the reduction; explain why the optimum is above the level they are selecting.

Q u o t e:


Your applause of this reply is as flawed as the post itself.

People don't enjoy grinding for gear, theres no enjoyment in grinding - ever.

They are forced to do the grind so that they can have the gear to be able to enjoy the pvp.

So in essence, yes - people would prefer to have the gear instantly so they can actually have fun in what "PVP" actually stands for.

That's subjective and we disagree.

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Another avenue to spread the population out and increase interest in other BGs would be to increase the incentives for doing those other BGs. This could include bringing back gear that can only be purchased with specific marks from that bg (i.e. the old AB and WSG rewards).

I just dont think that trying to reduce the amount players participate in WG by making it less enjoyable is the route to take.

I agree with you. We're working on several changes for Battlegrounds in the next major content patch and hope to share them with you soon.

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You're delusional.

Mmm... probably a subjective analysis as well.

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I know it's a stretch, what with everyone quitting and all, but what if everyone keeps going to WG? What is going to be done then?

As I stated in another thread today, these changes aren't meant to be a final fix for Wintergrasp. We'll be watching closely to see how realm stability and interest in Wintergrasp plays out over the coming weeks.

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Also as long as you are listening, can something be done to increase reputation gain in AB and WSG? I along with many others feel that it is completely ridiculous.

We have discussed this with the developers recently, though I don't have information to provide at the moment.

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It's not at all subjective. It's called "grinding" for a reason. And that reason is that frankly, PvP is not all that fun when you don't have the PvP gear since you're basically not wearing any armor if you have 0 resilience. So you spend countless hours doing the same thing over and over again (including waiting at the spawn point) so you can get all the resilience you can so you can...play the game. Wow, that was time and money well spent!

You can't imply objectivity and then use the word "fun." I've done the PvP gear grind in every format the PvP system has taken, and have had fun doing it. Others have as well. You can argue that it's not well liked by a majority of players, but you can't say it's objective to assert that:

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People don't enjoy grinding for gear, theres no enjoyment in grinding - ever.

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Excuse me? Are you honestly arguing that grinds are fun? And you back that up by claiming that if even one person likes it, then it must be subjective and thus is not worth changing? I think some of the devs are drinking their own kool-aid and need to snap back to reality.

Absolutely, as nearly every aspect of a MMO can be reduced to a grind if you choose to look at it that way. Grind experience, reputation, levels, zones, quest lines, instances, PvP, etc...

It's about the experiences people have along the way that provide them with entertainment. Again, yes, by definition you can't argue over whether enjoyment can be found in an activity and call one opinion on the matter objective, regardless of how popular that opinion is.

Now get off the topic of subjectivity. Go argue with a dictionary and keep this thread on topic. Thanks. :)

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YOU BROUGHT IT UP!!!!!! >:-(

No, if I claim someone's supposed statement of fact to actually be an opinion, and then have several other people come back at me and claim that's not subjective simply because they agree with him, I'm going to defend words... words, they're all we have to go on.