Remove School of Hard Knocks

Q u o t e:
Seriously, whoever designed this achievement was either sadistic, retarded, or has never played this game before.

Your choice of options for those that designed this achievement are somewhat stilted. We hear your frustration and, well, we understand. Unfortunately, this achievement is not meant to be "super easy". It's something you have to ... what is the word... achieve. There are certain other achievements in this particular world event that are very simple and that's fine, but not all achievements are supposed to be on that level. It just so happens that this one in particular isn’t meant to be a super-easy achievement.

Does that mean it’s unduly hard? Not at all. I’ve completed this achievement on one character and almost completed it with another (I just need to cap the flag in EotS). I know other people who are having a harder time of it, but they see the achievement becoming more accessible throughout the week. Perhaps if this was Children’s "Day", this particular achievement may be very difficult, but spread over a week, it’s truly very accessible. Try simply setting a goal to get one portion of it done every day. Or organize a group of friends with the same goal to further this achievement.

Q u o t e:
Not all of us have friends to do this with you insensative baboon.

First of all, making fun of my sapient nature gets you nowhere.

Second, I did these achievements on my own, without PvP gear on either character, and without the medallion-of-get-out-of-jail-free on one of my characters. It's entirely doable regardless of your previous participation in the PvP scene.

Q u o t e:


Let's be honest Crygil, you're going to nerf the achievement. Blizzard caves in to QQ on a monthly basis (putting back Darkmoon fair after it ended because bads misread the calendar, Ulduar nerfs, Valentine's heart achievement nerfs, etc), and the QQ over this cheevie is beyond all of those.

So, what's the nerf going to be?

If we change the way this achievement works, well, then we do. Generally though, we change achievemetns because they fall outside of what we would consider the bounds of reason. That is not the case with this achievment. It's very reasonable.

Q u o t e:


Many of us care much more about the fact that we have to stab our out team in the back to get this done then anything else i have managed so far to do 2 of my 4 stabs but this is truely the worst achevment i have ever had to do killing my own team is just not cool.

How you achieve this goal is personal. I will neither condone nor condemn such actions, but know that you don't have to stab your team in the back in order to accomplish these tasks.

Falling back on my own personal experience again...when I did this, I teamed up with a shaman (whom I had never met before) and we tag-teamed flags in Arathi Basin. In Alterac Valley, I simply had to assault one of the four flags on the way to our end goal. In my first Eye of the Storm, I healed and protected people who got the flag. In my second EotS, I carried the and capped the flag. In Warsong Gulch, it was a team effort to retrieve the flag. All 4 times, we got it back. In all of these cases, I wasn't solely going after my own objectives simply because I knew that there would be time. Fortunately, there is still much time left. So there is no need to selfishly act against your Battleground goal.

Q u o t e:

But all the other acheivements that have been changed have been way easier than this and yet they were changed. Get into the beer of the month club, wow that was so hard to do dailies every day to get the achievement, yes it took some time to do and sample the beers over the course of a year but it was way easier to do. And yes the randomness of the Candy hearts in a bag screwed many people over but was also changed.

Two very specific examples of how we changed this to deal with things outside of player control:

1) The Achievement system released very, very close to the end of the Brewfest event. Players who were not in the Beta, or who were not clairvoyant, would have had to wait another year. We deemed this unfair.

2) The Love is in the Air achievement was changed do to statistical analysis. It would have been very difficult for even some of the most dedicated players to do this achievement.

In each of those cases, people would have been unable to get those achievements, but not due to any lack of effort or dilligance on their part.

Q u o t e:
Asking you to compete with 39 other people to tap one of like 6 flags in a game first IS COMPLETELY UNREASONABLE!

If you're in a BG where 39 other people are trying to actually do this achievement, then kudos to that Battlegroup. In most we've seen only 3 - 10 people actively attempting to complete this series of requirements. As time goes on, competition will also thin. It's very reasonable.

Q u o t e:


Honestly, your choosing to debate this post feels a bit like a strawman victory, you picked the weakest argument against the achievement and beat that.

The reason I find this achievement particularly grueling is that is arbitrary, measures largely irrelevant actions, encourages selfish play, you don't actually achieve anything, and you're fighting your own team more than the enemy. And really, I wouldn't complain normally, but a defense of this as good design, I had to say something.

1) Arbitrary. Why these specific actions? Why not capture a mine, or kill a frostwolf? And when someone else caps that flag, the frustration just gets worse.

2) irrelevant. Whee, I captured a flag, it will be recapped in 5 sec, but I'll be /afked out by then!

3) Selfish. I saw three of my guys trying to cap stables, with one Alliance playing D. What's the best way to try and win? That's right, let my trio finish him off and cap, while I slow the people rezzing? Is that what I do? Nope, I become the fourth guy at the flag trying to cap so I can /afk out. Only one of us is actually fighting the lone defender, the other three of us are repeatedly attempting to cap. Because that is why we're there, not to win. I also caught myself wishing I had an improved mounted speed talent, so I could respec and just grab the farm right off.

4) Not really "achieving" anything. I have done each of these things so many many times over the past years, but this week, they matter. And more than that, you can just immediately leave. A far far better achievement would be to get a win in each BG where your orphan saw 10 HKs, or some such. Or get an Orc warlock HK here and a Blood elf priest kill there. Like the ears, petals, snowballs achievements, just violent.

5) Fighting your own team. I love the alliance today. I *want* them to cap the blacksmith, that means I get a chance at capping it back. But that Tauren over there with his orphan out, he's my enemy, he's the one in my way. I'm hoping when it comes time for Eye of the storm I get one of those awful 3-1 battles where the winning team just lets the losing team cap and cap again, because that makes it easier for me. A bit against the intent of a battleground, no?

1) These specific actions because:
A) You cannot be AFK and cap a flag.
B) Capturing a flag or returning a flag is generally the objective of those battlegrounds. They are part of the win scenario.

Flags cap and uncap often enough that they present a myriad of chances for you to cap. So anger toward your teammates is wholly misplaced.

2) These are entirely relevant to the Battleground. Capturing a flag prevents an enemy from gaining points or returning a flag gives you the opportunity to cap a flag yourself.

3)Being a selfish player is hardly new. Unfortunately, that only speaks to the character of the people involved.

4) Some of your suggestions are decent, but they themselves don't preclude any of the player activity you were talking about. Capping a flag (and I've said this before) is part of the win scenario for many of these Battlegrounds. Thus, capping a flag is an active and valuable part of the game (as far from useless as you can really get).

5) If you take your competitive nature out on your team mates, I can only pity them. On my realm, premades are forming with designated flag cappers per each BG. In a sense, causing an entirely new level of cooperation. Ultimately, you decide if you're going to play the game in a particularly selfish fashion. That is entirely your decision.