Feedback: Demon Hunters

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Community Manager
#1 - Sept. 20, 2023, 9:26 p.m.
Blizzard Post

Demon Hunter talent updates will be starting to roll in as they become ready, starting with Havoc tree changes in this week’s PTR build. In some cases, talents may be missing or marked as a work in progress [WIP], but there are enough changes to the Havoc tree and individual talents that we’d like to get it in players’ hands to begin gathering feedback. Vengeance and Class tree changes are coming soon.

Demon Hunter

  • Spectral Sight cooldown is now 1 minute 30 seconds (was 1 minute, and 30 seconds with rank 2 talented).
  • Fodder to the Flame demon now revealed by Spectral Sight.
  • Fodder to the Flame demon now takes fatal damage from Eye Beam/Fel Devastation in addition to Throw Glaive.
  • Fodder to the Flame buff is now granted immediately upon killing demon (was upon collecting soul).
  • Metamorphosis cooldown reduced to 3 minutes (was 4 minutes).
  • Darkness now has a 15% chance to avoid all damage from an attack. Chance to avoid damage increased by 100% when not in a raid.
  • First of the Illidari has been removed.
  • Havoc
    • Metamorphosis duration reduced to 20 seconds (was 24 seconds).
    • Demonic Appetite is now baseline for Havoc and causes souls to generate 20 Fury (was 30).
    • Fel Eruption is now baseline for Havoc.
    • Glaive Tempest cooldown increased to 25 seconds (was 20 seconds), damage increased by 15%, and damage reduced beyond 8 targets (was 5).
    • Fel Barrage has been redesigned – No longer channeled, drains 15 Fury per tick, lasts until Fury is depleted. Damage reduced beyond 5 targets (was 8).
    • Initiative’s effect is no longer triggered or denied by damage over time effects.
    • Momentum now increases damage by 6% (was 8%), lasts 6 seconds (was 5 seconds), and duration stacks to a max of 30 seconds (was 10 seconds).
    • New Talent: Inertia – When empowered by Unbound Chaos, Fel Rush increases damage by 20% for 5 seconds.
    • Fel Rush now enforces a global cooldown of 0.5 seconds (was 0.25 seconds).
    • Felblade now enforces a global cooldown of 0.5 seconds (was 1.5 seconds).
    • [WIP] New Talent: Deflecting Dance – Blade Dance deflects incoming attacks, absorbing damage up to 15% of your maximum health.
    • [WIP] New Talent: A Fire Inside – Immolation Aura has 1 additional charge and 30% chance to refund a charge when activated. You can have multiple Immolation Auras active at a time
    • Felfire Heart talent has been removed.
    • Fel Rush damage increased by 60%.
    • Unbound Chaos is now a 1-point talent (was 2) and increases next Fel Rush damage by 250% (was 200/400%).
    • Critical Chaos is now a 1-point talent (was 2), and has refund chance 30% of your Critical Strike chance (was 20/40%).
    • Dancing with Fate is now a 1-point talent (was 2), Blade Dance final slash damage bonus is now 25% (was 20/40%).
    • Blind Fury now is now a 1-point talent (was 2), Eye Beam generates 40 Fury per second (was 20/40) and has 10% increased damage and duration (was 10/20%).
    • Serrated Glaives is now a 1-point talent (was 2), and has been adjusted – Enemies hit by Chaos Strike or Throw Glaive (was only Throw Glaive) take 15% (was 10/20%) increased damage from Chaos Strike and Throw Glaive (was Chaos Strike and Eye Beam).
    • Growing Inferno is now a 1-point talent (was 2), and increases damage by 10% per tick (was 5/10%).
    • Isolated Prey has been adjusted – No longer causes Fel Rush to grant Fury; now causes Immolation Aura to deal 30% increased damage.
  • Vengeance
    • Amirdrassil, the Dream’s Hope (2) Set Bonus – Chance to trigger reduced for each target beyond the first.
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WoW Developer
#259 - Sept. 24, 2023, 10:16 p.m.
Blizzard Post

This is true for many, and is one of the foremost considerations behind the adjustments we’ve made to movement-related talents, and are continuing to make.

For starters, Isolated Prey asked players to use Fel Rush for damage on CD, and that was especially unhealthy. Isolated Prey also blocked pathing for builds that would avoid the movement talents entirely, which should be a reasonable option for those with that preference.

As for Momentum itself, increasing both the base duration and duration it can stack to will further reduce how often those skills need to be used.

We will also be introducing a talent that allows Fel Rush to be reactivated shortly after use in order to dash back towards your starting location, reducing the need to constantly reorient the camera when using Fel Rush for damage. We’ll be interested in gameplay feedback about it when it’s in players’ hands, and especially whether or not it helps alleviate some of those swimmy, disorienting camera moments.

I don’t have further details to share at this moment, but we’ve read through these feedback threads and will be making iterative changes that intend to address some of the more common concerns that have been raised thus far. Thank you to those that have tested and shared your experiences; it has helped generate internal discussion and guide upcoming changes. Cheers!

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Community Manager
#522 - Sept. 27, 2023, 10:15 p.m.
Blizzard Post

With the PTR build that went live moments ago:

    • Spectral Sight cooldown is now 1 minute 30 seconds (was 1 minute, and 30 seconds with rank 2 talented).
    • Spectral Sight cooldown reduced to 30 seconds (was 1 minute/30 seconds), and Haste now affects its global cooldown.
    • Demonic’s duration for Demon form reduced to 5 seconds (was 6 seconds).
    • Elysian Decree has been moved to the Demon Hunter class tree.
    • Fodder to the Flame has been moved to the Demon Hunter class tree.
    • Fodder to the Flame now increases Spectral Sight cooldown by 30 seconds in addition to previous effect.
    • The Hunt initial damage increased by 22% and damage over time damage increased by 30%.
    • Sigil of Flame now moved to Demon Hunter baseline.
    • Sigil of Flame initial damage increased by 200%.
    • New Talent: Live by the Glaive – When you parry an attack or have one of your attacks parried, restore 2% of max health and 10 Fury. This effect may occur once every 5 seconds.
    • Unnatural Malice, Relentless Pursuit, Extended Sigils, and Misery in Defeat have been removed.
    • Unrestrained Fury is now a 1-rank talent (was 2) and increases max Fury by 20 (was 10/20).
    • Shattered Restoration is now a 1-rank talent (was 2) and increases Shattered Soul healing by 10% (was 5/10%).
    • Illidari Knowledge is now a 1-rank talent (was 2) and reduces magic damage taken by 5% (was 3/6%).
    • Will of the Illidari is now a 1-rank talent (was 2) and increases max health by 5% (was 3/6%).
    • Rush of Chaos is now a 2-rank talent (was 1) and reduces Metamorphosis cooldown by 30/60 seconds (was 60 seconds).
    • Quickened Sigils no longer reduces cooldowns of Sigil skills.
    • Erratic Felheart now reduces cooldown of Fel Rush/Infernal Strike by 8/15% (was 10/20%)
    • Flames of Fury has been adjusted – Now a 2-rank talent (was 1). Sigil of Flame deals 35/70% increased damage and generates 1/2 Fury per target (was 2).
    • Havoc
      • Dancing with Fate is now a 1-rank talent (was 2), Blade Dance final slash damage bonus is now 25% (was 20/40%).
      • Blind Fury now increases Blade Dance’s final slash damage bonus by 25/50% (was 20/40%).
      • Blind Fury now is now a 1-rank talent (was 2), Eye Beam generates 40 Fury per second (was 20/40) and has 10% increased damage and duration (was 10/20%).
        • This change has been reverted.
      • New Talent: Demon Hide – Increases magical damage dealt by 5%, and reduces physical damage taken by 5%.
      • New Talent: Dash of Chaos – For 2 seconds after using Fel Rush, activating it again will dash back towards your initial location.
      • New Talent: Scars of Suffering– Increases Versatility by 4% and reduces threat generated by 8%.
      • New Talent: Chaotic Disposition – Each time you deal Chaos damage, there is a 7.77% chance to duplicate 33% of the damage, up to 3/7 total times. 2-rank talent.
      • Eye Beam damage increased by 15%.
      • Fel Barrage damage increased by 100%.
      • Isolated Prey now causes Immolation Aura to always critically strike (was 30% increased damage).
      • Throw Glaive now triggers Cycle of Hatred’s effect when Furious Throws is selected.
      • Soulrend is now a 1-rank talent (was 2) and causes 100% of damage to be dealt over time as Chaos (was 60/120%).
      • Shattered Destiny now increases Demon form duration per 10 Fury spend (was 8).
    • Vengeance
      • New Talent: Ascending Flame – Sigil of Flame initial damage is increased by 50%. Multiple applications of Sigil of Flame may overlap.
      • New Talent: Illuminated Sigils – Sigil skills have 1 additional charge. You have 20% increased chance to parry attacks from enemies afflicted by Sigil of Flame.
      • Agonizing Flames is now a 1-rank talent (was 2) and increases movement speed by 10% (was 10/20%) and Immolation Aura duration by 50% (was 25/50%).
      • Extended Spikes is now a 1-rank talent (was 2) and increases duration of Demon Spikes by 2 seconds (was 1/2 seconds).
      • Burning Blood is now a 1-rank talent (was 2) and increases Fire damage by 10% (was 5/10%).
      • Darkglare Boon is now a 1-rank talent (was 2) and Fel Devastation refreshes 20-40% of cooldown (was 10-20/20-40%) and refunds 20-40 Fury (was 10-20/20-40 Fury).
      • Chains of Anger now increases duration of Sigil effects by 2 seconds in addition to its previous effect.
      • Soul Carver now generates 3 soul fragments on initial strike (was 2).
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WoW Developer
#553 - Sept. 28, 2023, 3:48 a.m.
Blizzard Post

The only problem I really see is that the bottom still feels too loaded with talent choices but not enough points to select them.

The final gate does indeed have an above-average number of talents to choose from, which does not have to be a problem unto itself, but it does become one when there are too many build-required talents or subthemes within that gate. Soulrend in particular has drawn our attention, which was intended to become ‘easier’ to pick up when costing 1-point instead of 2 and in row 8 instead of 9… and yet might still be falling short in terms of total cost and positional requirement. We will be considering if any adjustments - likely small - can lead to improvements that better match our intent.

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WoW Developer
#571 - Sept. 28, 2023, 4:46 a.m.
Blizzard Post

We agree, and that’s why I noted Soulrend’s current positioning within the final gate as being particularly restrictive, because taking any other TG talents prices-in taking Soulrend too.

Many have enjoyed Throw Glaive-as-rotational-spender at some point during Dragonflight, but I can certainly understand tension around this concept among those who do not prefer it – especially considering the tier set heavily encourages taking Throw Glaive bonuses.

We also recognize the tier set bonuses are quite weak from a tuning perspective. As a result, we will be looking to make adjustments that both raise the bonuses to intended levels of damage contribution, as well as make a (hopefully) meaningful concession on the rotational requirement for extracting value from them.

As with everything-PTR the details are subject to change, but this is the revision we are currently considering:

(2) Set Bonus: Blade Dance automatically triggers Throw Glaive on your primary target and each slash has a 50% chance to Throw Glaive an enemy for 35% damage.

(4) Set Bonus: Throw Glaive reduces the remaining cooldown of The Hunt by 2 sec, and The Hunt’s damage over time effect lasts 6 seconds longer.

The (2) Set’s initial full power automatically-triggered Throw Glaive will consume a charge of your Throw Glaive skill, and thus require that a charge is available in order to trigger. This will drastically reduce the need to manually cast Throw Glaive rotationally, but without denying it completely; for example, in circumstances where you’re out of melee range or find yourself with an extra charge. The additional partial-damage Throw Glaive procs will continue to behave in the same way they do now.

The (4) Set’s cooldown reduction will be applied once from each Throw Glaive cast or proc, and will not be affected by the total number of glaives thrown per cast or number of targets hit.

We expect the tuning value of the above changes to be significantly closer to intended targets, and we will continue to evaluate and more tightly tune the bonuses and related skills as we move forward.

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WoW Developer
#580 - Sept. 28, 2023, 5:20 a.m.
Blizzard Post

Feelings on this topic have certainly been mixed thus far. We don’t have any updates planned soon, but we’ll be evaluating gameplay and feedback about the version available on the current PTR. Please feel free to share any related experiences, evaluations, or just plain feelings – and that goes for anyone, of course! Thanks =)