Pally/War weapons vs Druid/DK

Q u o t e:
Paladins, Warriors, and Dual-Wield DK's (lawl) exclusively use one handed tanking weapons with stats like Defense, Stamina, Strength, Dodge, Parry, hit, Expertise. These weapons are always swords, maces, or axes. There are no Fist Weapons or Daggers with defense rating (paladins can't equip).

These weapons are made exclusively and oriented towards two tank classes.

Druids and Death Knights are left in the dark. Both classes can equip 2h Maces and Polearms. However, there is no indication of Blizzard itemizing any of these weapons towards tanking druids/DK's.

Come on blizz, seriously. Make a 2h Mace or Polearm that has a hefty amount of stamina, strength, agility, and maybe some hit or expertise.

There are some high stamina, 2-handed maces in the game currently. However, 2 handed weapons are not in the immediate future going to be given tanking statistics. This is simply because both of the classes who can use these items to tank have been, more or less, designed around the premise that they would not need the additional itemization in those slots to make them effective. We also don't want to create an entirely new branch of items that will also clog up loot tables for a fraction of the population, especially when it's been handled in other more unique ways.

Q u o t e:


If that's the intent, then why did you not change Origin and other armor staves to DPS stats? Do you want fully-Ulduar-geared ferals using a staff from Naxxramas?

And why did you add a new armor staff to the game (Argent Tournament reward)?

Something doesn't add up....

It all adds up. Maybe not the way you'd like it too, though. It's a delicate balancing act. Trying to narrow the band, while still providing enough options to keep players satisfied. Admittedly, some things are harder to phase out than others (spell power plate, for example), but on the whole, we're always working to try and make it so that every boss has that air of anticipation because you know he's going to drop something for you.

There are some extremely good questions brought up in this thread. I'll try to answer them, but understand that the answer may not make you feel any better.

Let's start off with Druid tanks. This is a very special situation. The Druid tanking tree is also a potential damage tree and, as such, the goal for it has been to make feral gear really fit into both categories. This means the same attributes would have different uses for the feral forms (Bear and Cat). Our goal has been to make items attractive from both aspects of the tree. In regard to tanking two-handers, this has specific needs which we endeavor to meet.

Warriors, Paladins, and Death Knights can all use one-handed weapons. However, Warriors and Paladins were really balanced around the sword and shield combination long before Death Knights arrived on the scene. That makes it much more difficult to simply remove these items and make every one-hander that is attainable a "DPS/Tank" item.

As for Death Knights and shields... They just aren't balanced around that. Death Knights are already capable of reaching good avoidance numbers through talents and mitigation through frost presence and talents. Dual-wield tanking was not intended to be the only way Death Knights could tank. We always intended for them to have the choice between dual-wield and two-handed.

Q u o t e:


Actually, your goal has been to make rogue gear fit into both categories. I understand why, but since doing so bear gear has felt like a mess. Unless, it appears, I strive to become an eilte arena player. Didn't you guys say we weren't going to find ourselves back here again?

Also, the same attributes don't have different uses between bear and cat; we simply put more or less emphasis on them depending on our role. There are finer points to make with things like AP, Expertise, etc. but it essentially boils down to Stamina and Armor. My tank set needs a ton of both, while they are the first stats I'll give up for more dps. So while you may want the gear to fit both categories, that's not the way we play the game. Like many here, I have a tank set, a max stam tank set, a dps set, a BG set, etc.

Yes some items are attractive to both, but many are clearly superior for one role. So what exactly do you think the needs are that you endevour to meet for our 2H tanking weapon? The consensus here is obviously not on board with you.

This is an active process. We are actively working towards an end goal. Whether that end goal is achieved through further tweaks or some other route is yet to be determined. What makes this process unpopular is that it's a delicate one, and we are loathe to make quick changes. That said, we're always looking at the situation as it currently stands. We understand that players feel the best tanking weapons aren't coming out of the PvE content they expect to see it in and it's something that we are discussing.

Q u o t e:
Its really bad when you notice that every arguement blizzard makes is contradicted by something else they do in the name of class variety:

We cant make a 2h tanking mace because that would clutter gear itemization, when in reality Any Block Plate armor is doing the same thing, or worse tanking guns, plate with spell power, 1h tanking weps, tanking shields, any item that can only be designated for 2 or fewer class types by comparison is cluttering up the loot tables.

It doesnt matter that they already figured out a way to release specific itemization without cluttering up loot tables through badge rewards.Or that the best tanking staff in the game is from pvp.

Its like Blizz doesnt even program their loot and just has a program that they randomly generate stats for items and if it happens to be good for tanking that works, if not they can just deny it as not necessary for tanking, next major tier of raiding we will get another batch of randomly generated staffs and if we get something good they will all pat each other on the back saying how they really lisen to their players, if not they can keep up with the denial that we really dont need tanking stats and ignore the pvp gear.

The issue here is that we are dealing with decisions made in the past and amending them to a new design philosophy. This isn't truly contradictory. Instead, it is more of an evolution. We have learned from the experiences that we have had in the past and are now working to meet the new design.

Q u o t e:


Prot warrior dps in gear they tank in seems to disagree. Our dps in gear we tank in should be nerfed, while our dps in gear we dps in should probably remain about the same.


However, I find it odd that the "justification" for screwing bear itemization is that cats and bears share a tree, yet tank and dps DKs share trees, and Blizzard has no problem itemizing them differently (except for the neglected weapon slot for tanking DKs). Another example of contradictions, and this time, since DKs are brand new, they can't use the excuse of it being some sort of hold-over from an earlier time.

You confuse me. Death Knights are new. They use gear that is also good for virtually all other plate wearing tanks. This applies directly to our philosophy of consolidation.

Rings and necklaces that have block value fall directly into the same category as one-handed weapons and shields. Once a class has been built with a certain framework, it is very difficult for us to remove the foundation for that class. If we did decide to entirely remove such items, paladin and warrior tanks would be adversely effected .

Q u o t e:
Thats kinda the point.

If you treated Warriors how you've treated Druids, as afterthoughts, they would be screaming for blood by now. So you itemize new content for them, but not us, because to put items we can use in the game would be "cluttering up the loot tables" and not putting in items only they use would leave them "adversely effected".

The distinct difference here is that they are "built" around those concepts of itemization, while druids are not. Druids are built to be able to use feral gear for each of their feral forms, or at least that is the idea.