Class representation mechanic is soulbreaking

#0 - April 2, 2009, 10:05 p.m.

Before anyone goes and calls this QQ, please read past the first paragraph to understand why I'm trying to bring a discussion to whether this system is indeed working as intended.

Some time ago I posted what playing my Hunter felt like. I am trapped playing a class that is no longer enjoyable to play. It's damage has been gimped and its complexity pushed through the roof. It's mechanics and abilities are clunky and don't make sense. The patch by patch redesign of core abilities in each of it's talent trees is testament enough. However by now, I have titles and mounts no longer available in the game. I have invested in gear and loot from my guild and should give something back to my guild by playing my best geared toon. Etc. I thought. "This is wrong." But there's no way out. Is this by design?

Much to my surprise, apparently so. And I'd like to hear the community's opinion on this, because this not only applies to Hunters, but to any class. Refer to this quote:

"3) Popularity and viability have a correlation but it is not 1:1. Druids have never been the most popular class in WoW. There are a ton of DKs right now. Some players will abandon them when their power is more in line, but others will continue to play them because they like the class or have already invested in them. " This from * 40. Re: [Feral Nerfs]. Why no dialogue? 03/29/2009 12:10:01 PM PDT

If this is in fact an accepted mechanic to maintain class representation i.e. it is OK that this class is not as fun as enjoyable as this other one, since by now there are enough players invested enough in it that the class will not simply fade into oblivion. I would like to suggest to find a different way. it is a game, it is supposed to be fun to whoever plays it. I submit that playing a class should be because it is the class you enjoy playing, not the one you feel obligated to play.

To clarify, by no means do I believe this is THE system they are using to balance class representation. But I do believe it is telling that it is a process that they do very much take into consideration. Also, this not only applies to classes, but to professions as well. How many would love to drop Engineering once and for all but feel tied to it due to so many schematics now collected, and the possibility some relief is brought in a near future patch? Go visit the epic engineering thread and you will find quite a few people who would love to drop it and find it hard to do so. Take the mechanics of inscription. you can learn one new glyph once per day. After 6 months of collecting glyphs, I submit that dropping it for something else is not quite as feasible as another profession.

I submit this is not a fun mechanic and should not belong in a game.

P.S. To clarify my point: I believe experience, and the above quote support the evidence that Developers are OK with some classes or professions being gimped or not as good or fun as others since they know many players are too invested in them to drop them altogether. It is my argument that this is a class representation balance crutch that should not belong in a game.

Ghostcrawler

#2 - April 3, 2009, 12:23 a.m.

Q u o t e:
If this is in fact an accepted mechanic to maintain class representation i.e. it is OK that this class is not as fun as enjoyable as this other one, since by now there are enough players invested enough in it that the class will not simply fade into oblivion.

You are making a leap from "class has a high representation" to "class is more fun or enjoyable than other classes." Again, there is a correlation, but again it is not one to one.

Some players like playing warriors because they like playing warriors, as in that is the type of character they pick to play in any game. Warriors have consistently been a popular class throughout WoW's history. Humans and blood elves are very popular races, in part because of the way they look or how familiar they seem to be. Shamans and warlocks have always been lower in representation, and part of that is probably just that they don't have as iconic a representation in other games or the media as fighters, wizards, priests and rogues. Some players like simple mechanics and some like complex mechanics. Some hate mana. Some love stealth. There are a lot of reasons for popularity differences.

Now, we are always on the look out for classes or class mechanics that players seem to comment on a lot as not being particularly fun. As just a few examples, totems, ammo and shards are all things we think we can improve.

Ghostcrawler

#94 - April 3, 2009, 11:35 p.m.

Q u o t e:
You say 'happy is not 1:1 with playing'. OP says that, too. Yet your tone implies you disagree with the notion of 'it is okay for class to not be fun, for a while, because of reason x'. I do not see text supporting that position in your post above.

No, it is not okay for a class not to be fun. The point I was trying to make was you can't look at popularity and conclude a) the most popular specs are the most powerful ones or b) the most popular specs are the most fun ones. Both fun and power play into popularity, no doubt. Many other things do too.

Q u o t e:
I work with a guy that firmly believes that Blizzard over-buffs 'flavor of the month' classes in order to get their numbers up. The Death Knight class would track with this assumption. Grossly overpowered on the outset, nerfed with gusto after achieving dominance. Some would stick with their DK, others will go back to their main.

We made a pretty big effort to make DKs fun and cool to play and coupled that with a starting experience that has some of the best content WoW has to offer (and that showers you in blue gear and mounts to boot). We didn't intend for them to be overpowered, nor would that have really been necessary in order to get players to play them.

Ghostcrawler

#98 - April 4, 2009, 12:27 a.m.

I fully support this (I know I'm having a blast leveling my 75 DK), but it really does make you notice the things about your class that aren't fun. DKs were made with several years of feedback, while other classes are stuck with archaic features that are just now getting looked at (warrior stance penalties, for example).

I am sure there is something to this as well. I started to write something similar in my previous post but considered it would probably get quoted out of context as "See? They made DKs OP on purpose!"

Q u o t e:
The new Legendary seems to be a Mace, there's no more Class quests, the gear is all "streamlined" for caster classes. Where did the flavor go?

Right, it went to Death Knights.

I can't wait to see those DKs rocking the new healer mace.

Class quests are popular but they are expensive when you consider 90% of players (on average) aren't benefiting. Or put another way, every class quest we introduce is really 10 quests! Would it have been worth it to make the DK experience one tenth the size in order to offer a handful of quests to other classes? Would any of that content have been appealing or would it all feel a little watered down? I think the DK start area may be the best experience in WoW. Would it have been worth giving that up? (Clearly offering that kind of experience for every class would have been worth it, but if we could have done that, we would have.)

Your stance seems to be that your class got screwed out of content because of the DK. But the DK was a big reason that a lot of players wanted to play WoW. They have been an enormously popular class, and from that point of view it's hard to argue we would have gotten so much interest in the expansion if that bullet on the back of the box had said "More class quests" instead. I'm not saying our only motivation is to sell boxes (though clearly in a business that has to be some part of the equation). I'm saying we tried to offer something in LK that players wanted, and in retrospect, the DK start area has been enormously popular.

Streamlining the gear was a necessary step. Ulduar has something like 800 pieces of gear, and that is with all of the streamlining. (Sunwell had something like 160.) There is just no way we could offer extra loot for hard modes and unique sets for specs like Holy paladins and Ele shamans if we didn't homogenize elsewhere.