PvP is DEAD and there's no way to fix it.

#0 - March 23, 2009, 10:51 p.m.
Blizzard Post
I can't take this any more. Wrath of the lich king has killed pvp and there's no coming back. Wow is not a pvp game any more at all. If your gonna play wow Play it for pve because blizzard has completely stabbed Wow's pvp to death. THERE'S NO BALANCE AT ALL ANY MORE. EVERY CLASS CAN CRIT 10 k EVERY CLASS CAN DO EXTREME DAMAGE NO MATTER WHAT SPEC THEY ARE. I got Completely face rolled by a full resto druid even tree form you know why? because he bursted me down in no time at all in resto gear! He crit me with star fire and wrath back to back Sf for 4.6k and wrath spammed me for 3k each, and no matter what i did he just healed through it. Ever since the spell power healing power merge there is no more class rolls in pvp. Any one can do damage.

Oh and don't even get me started on death knights Spam chains of ice silences and key board roll till your face peels off!! WEE WIN! Death Knights are probably the number 1 reason pvp is dead. Other than the fact that all cc's don't share a DR.
I guarantee that 90% of people who play wow have a dk as a bank alt or as an alt and like 7 or 8% have them as mains and the other 2 or 3% just don't have them or refuse to play one. Those aren't factual numbers but just my guess. and 90% of arena teams have a death knight in them it's almost a requirement. I'm just sick of it. PvP takes no skill any more it's all luck or because of the class you play and the classes over powered abilities. It's just a clutter of people bursting and cc'ing each other's faces off and preying to god that you get the 1st hit / cc off.

So basically I'm just sick of it. If I play wow it will be for pve only. I used to pvp on wow and that was it. Ah the golden ages of BC and pre BC. But wow is going to just be a time consumer until star wars the old republic comes out and when that game is released I'm done with wow Unless wow pulls something out that makes pvp not suck terribly.


Thx for reading if you did leave your comments below flame me if you want I really don't give a damn any more.

PROOF THAT Dk's ARE OP this is a clip of me on my dk in ONLY SAVAGE

#60 - March 24, 2009, 12:39 a.m.
Blizzard Post
Many balancing adjustments have been made and can be tested on the public test realms. We're calling for all PvPers who are interested in doing some focus testing to log into the test realms this Thursday and queue up for any rated arena bracket: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=15864449012&sid=1
#74 - March 24, 2009, 1:01 a.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:

This is irony in its purest form.

That's not irony.

Q u o t e:
Blizz should add more bgs thats not to big like av 25vs 25, 20 vs 20 and remake av too.They should also introduce bg championing and make pvp gear benefit to more things and my idea is encourage people to do more world pvp. My idea is to make towns capturable and benifit the faction who holds it. By this an alternative to leveling has been created the idea of leveling in pvp can us the alternative to quest in towns thats been captured.

There are some notable changes for battlegrounds in an upcoming patch.
#85 - March 24, 2009, 1:12 a.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:

Not to be needlessly difficult, but we've been waiting for an upgrade to the BG system since the old rating system was phased out literally years ago.
Vague, infinitely extensible assurances of "notable changes" in "an upcoming patch" are just not helpful anymore.

That's all I can provide at the moment. It's a reassurance that there is much focus going into battlegrounds right now for a post-3.1 patch. We'll provide more information once 3.1 is digested.

Q u o t e:
Arenas is not PvP. Never was. Never will be.

PvP is dead.

You don't need to go out of your way to make this point to me, unless you feel turning every thread into a "get rid of arena" rant is useful. Using the arenas to focus test class balance is more effective than most other means.

Q u o t e:
Actually, the juxtaposition of the two statements quoted directly in tangent with each other meets the exact definition of irony, and was done deliberately with that intent in mind. However, I'm not interested in debating the semantic notion of literary structure; feel free to call it whatever you would like.

Good to hear (because it's not ironic). :p
#94 - March 24, 2009, 1:19 a.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:


#112 - March 24, 2009, 1:29 a.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:

wait, wait

I liked Southshore. I liked BGs. I don't like arenas. What should I do?

Southshore is empty and the BG queues are nearly empty even at prime time.

If you don't like arenas don't come participate in the focus testing.
#120 - March 24, 2009, 1:34 a.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:

That's not very supportive. =/

Well we don't need everyone testing. There are plenty of people who enjoy arenas or enjoy helping us test class balance changes. We're just giving a day to focus this testing while we monitor the game play.
#130 - March 24, 2009, 1:42 a.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:

Right. The DK's and the Ret Pali's.

What about the rest of us?

Being hyperbolic usually forces others to reach your same opinions on things?

Q u o t e:
I guess what I'm wondering is: Is that the only context in which you're probing the effects of these changes? Your words seem to imply so.

It's a lot easier to test things in the arena format. It's also easier not to open the testing up to multiple formats that requires more monitoring. Why watch the way things are balanced in 10v10 objective-based games when we can watch what happens in 2v2, 3v3, or 5v5 last-team-standing matches?
#133 - March 24, 2009, 1:46 a.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:
After monitoring that gameplay and testing of arenas this Thursday, are you guys going to implement class balance changes based off of observances that'll make it into 3.1?

The goal is to see if any tweaks are needed for 3.1, yes. :)
#149 - March 24, 2009, 1:53 a.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:
Well yes. But while it is easy, it is also of limited use. People are looking for balance and answers, not ease of data gathering. You want to watch the way BGs and World PvP are balanced because they aren't Arenas. Arenas will give you next to no information on how the other facets of PvP function.

You know this. I know you know this.

I take it you're not going to be helping us test. That's fine.
#221 - March 24, 2009, 2:52 a.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:
I wish you had made mention of this prior to now, Zarhym. I was beginning to feel the BG situation was being ignored as no one in the company would even talk about it let alone bring up the topic.

To be fair, we've mentioned it several times (myself included). The first time we mentioned wanting to shift focus back to battlegrounds was prior to the release of Wrath of the Lich King. Tigole (Jeff Kaplan, former game director of World of Warcraft) made a post stating that we never intended for arenas to be the central focus of WoW PvP, and that we'd like to develop a system to more accurately measure skill in battlegrounds to provide better PvP rewards for those who don't want to do arenas.

Such an overhaul takes time though, which is why we've released very little additional information (though it has been repeated numerous times by other Blizzard employees on this forum).
Q u o t e:

First time ever quoted by a Blue in GD for me, and I have to say (sincerely) with all due respect, you're putting words in my mouth. I never said get rid of Arenas. For those that like that simplified, duel-in-a-box style of gaming, I say "more power to thee".

For those of us that thought that first M in MMORPG meant something, we'll continue to judge the state of PvP in WoW sans Arena - and on that judgement it's not lookin' good.

This is the whole point though. My post has nothing to do with whether or not we favor or prefer arenas. It's a simple fact that arenas provide the most accurate and stream-lined way for us to observe players testing class balance changes with regards to PvP. Watching 30 people fight over capturing a mine is not going to provide us quicker, more focused results than watching 5 people square off against 5 other people where the sole purpose is to be the last person standing.
#236 - March 24, 2009, 2:59 a.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:
With regards to Arena, yes. With regards to PvP, I must respectfully disagree.
It won't be as quick or as focused, but it will be more valuable. Especially in regards to balance.

I don't really know what you mean. Regardless of how you feel about arenas though, it's still PvP.

It could be exactly the type of player vs. player combat you hoped to never see in a MMO. It's still PvP.

Q u o t e:
Understand however, that those of us left out in the cold by this Arena-trend, would like to hear more Blue on what change pare being considered to restore non-Arena PvP progression and the like (not suggesting that it has to be you or now when I say that too).

Thanks Auction. I just want you to know that I can't wait to provide some of this information. I personally do not enjoy playing arenas, though I see the niche they fill.

I'll be pushing to get some peaks of our plans for battlegrounds out as soon as we can. :)
#246 - March 24, 2009, 3:08 a.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:
I remember Tigole's statement you refer to. I must have passed over the BG reference since I usually tuned Tigole out when Arenas were mentioned because I don't play them. I gave them a fair chance. Just didn't care for them.

If other employees have made mention of BG changes in the past, I must not have read them. I miss a lot of blue posts as I am only here for a few hours a night. But since you mentioned BGs are getting looked at, I'm perfectly OK with waiting.

Just to sum it up...

Arenas became the focal point of PvP because there exists in the rating system an easier way to measure skill. On the contrary, battlegrounds shifted from the focus and the means by which the most competitive PvP rewards could be obtained because there's almost no measurement of skill. Someone could AFK their way to great gear just as easily as someone legitimately playing to win every match.

We don't like this though, as arenas really are meant to be an E-sport side game, not the end all, be all of World of Warcraft PvP. We understand it's a niche game that's not for everyone. What we want to do is revamp the battleground system and create some better functionality to measure skill so that players have access to more comparable rewards to those issued via the arenas. We'd also like to provide the means for player to level up via PvP should that be their preference.

We have a new battleground on the way for Wrath of the Lich King as well. It's looking pretty cool so far. :)

Q u o t e:
Background Screen Loading Tips: What's the huge overhaul on that one?

That has little to do with changing the functionality of the way honor is obtained, and the way skill of the individual is measured in a battleground. I've not personally read your suggestions, but I agree it'd be a good idea to get some guides or tips out about the objectives in each battleground.
#264 - March 24, 2009, 3:14 a.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:

It's been mentioned in the past by Jeff (Tigole) and Tom (Kalgan), but from the responses I've read it seemed that most players figured they were referring to Strand of the Ancients or Lake Wintergrasp.

There is a new one in the works. :)

Q u o t e:
As for a new Battleground, is this something seperate from the upcoming Argent Tournament?

#273 - March 24, 2009, 3:17 a.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:

You said something like "we'd like to make more BGs for WotLK in the future" or some other non-committal nonsense.

Well riddle me committal.
#279 - March 24, 2009, 3:20 a.m.
Blizzard Post
Q u o t e:

I think your missing a lot of people's point here, too, and that is the process works both ways.
BGs aren't a good way to judge small encounters for the same reason arenas are a terrible basis for balancing the rest of the game: they're too different.
There's no easy solution, but then that's the idea here: you guys are looking for a "streamlined" way out of this little corner you've painted yourselves into, and there just isn't one.

Just because we're not doing focus testing for battlegrounds or world PvP doesn't mean we're using arenas as the sole method of testing changes. We've been testing changes for months, reading feedback from the test realms, observing PvE and PvP, etc.
#327 - March 24, 2009, 3:37 a.m.
Blizzard Post
Thanks to this thread my cat just sabotaged my turkey sammich while I was unawares.