Are we gonna get comment on DK threat?

#0 - March 10, 2009, 11:33 p.m.

WIth the removal of BoSanc and the change to blade barrier its quite clear to every1 that DK threat is going to be in the toilet come 3.1 w/o some kind of change.

I and others would like a talent similar to BoSanc to compensate for the nerfs.
Maybe make scent of blood actually worth taking...
Or add a +RP to frost pres..

Or just boost FP threat modifier... ANYTHING!!!

One of the reasons our threat WITHOUT BOSANC is so poor is we have TONS of wasted GCDs

Unholy for example only uses about 3-4 rune abilities every 10 sec cycle. That leaves 3-4 GCD's wasted every 10.5 seconds.
SS SS BS BS
SS SS SS

Frost only uses 4 of every 7.
IT BS OB OB

Blood uses the most at roughly 5 of every 7
IT PS DS HS HS
DS HS HS HS HS

I realize I did not list RP dumps, and the reason is simple. RS takes almost ALL of our RP.

Also it would be extremely helful if our new Ohh Shiznet buttons no longer required runes to work...
I mean if they are now buttons to use on emergency, then the chances we just have a free rune sitting around for that emergency seems really low. It is TERRIBLE IDEA

Besides our threat is bad enough w/o having to toss our rotation out the window due to needing to use the cooldown.

Ghostcrawler

#20 - March 11, 2009, 1:27 a.m.

We need to do some more testing on DK threat, and additional feedback in that dept. is useful.

It gets tricky for a number of reasons. Some DKs go for some kind of health or mitigation buff in every possible way and then are surprised their threat is low. Threat is something you are supposed to care about as a tank, and gear accordingly. The question is whether DKs who sacrifice a little bit of mitigation (in the broad sense -- I don't strictly mean armor) for dps then fail at tanking encounters. We don't know that yet because the DK tanking nerfs just hit (and Blade Barrier was broken).

Some DKs blow IBF and Rune Strike every time they can, and then wonder where their runic power went.

I don't know that just losing 10% avoidance from Blade Barrier makes the difference between getting Rune Strike procs or not. Again, some DKs use the defense runeforge enchant instead of the avoidance one because of their gear choices (or luck therein) elsewhere.

We need to see the effects of losing Bo Sanc on all the tanks. Some never had it before, so all and all, that change is beneficial for the game.

Ghostcrawler

#40 - March 11, 2009, 4:53 a.m.

Just saying "We need more runic power so we can Rune Strike more," doesn't really address the question. Yes, Rune Strike is an excellent use of runic power for purposes of threat generation. Nobody is arguing that. The question is: are you converting every single white swing into a Rune Strike? If not, how many are you missing? If you miss Rune Strikes do you have trouble maintaining threat? If so, why? Do you get 10% fewer Rune Strikes with 10% less parry? Does that mean the difference in being able to maintain threat or not?

Most importantly, is it the lack of avoidance or the lack of runic power than limits you?

Ghostcrawler

#151 - March 11, 2009, 6:19 p.m.

Death and Decay works fine for group AE. It's not designed to be a great single target threat spell.

Rune Strike isn't the most exciting ability in the world, but it does the job, which is giving DKs a high threat move that doesn't use a global and can't generally be used for dps. Creating a new high threat ability, which is something we might eventually do, is complicated because we would not want it to be used for dps and we would not want it to compete with all the other rune and runic power abilities.

We can understand why you might Rune Strike less with these changes. What you haven't convinced us of is that DKs are doomed if they Rune Strike less. Are dps classes pulling off of you today on live? What is your highest possible threat per second? What will it be after these changes? (I saw one estimate of 5% less threat.) Would it be higher if you made some gear changes? Will you die too often with those gear changes? I'm trying to get players to just stop saying "If I Rune Strike less, nobody will let me tank."

Scent for Blood is a reasonable talent for us to look at in order to provide a little more rp per sec to the tanking DK.

Ghostcrawler

#251 - March 12, 2009, 12:58 a.m.

Q u o t e:
Secondly Scent of blood has several problems.
1. .75% average proc rate every 10 seconds / with a 10 second cd.
2. only grants 15 total RP / 10 seconds
3. RP only gained on white melee hits, not gained if white hit is replaced by a rune strike(which costs RP)

Scent of blood needs to provide enough RP to rune strike, or use ibf/ams
Scent of blood needs to proc the RP gain on any melee hit, white or yellow.
Scent of blood needs to provide RP gain threat equal to chill, dirge, and butchery.
Scent of blood needs to have a shorter internal cd or a stacking charge based, and it needs to provide all the RP at once.

Scent of Blood would be a good replacement for Bo Sanc if it had better numbers. It's high enough in the tree, and just below a mandatory tanking talent, that most DKs should have access to it.

I will correct one misconception though. On-next-swing attacks do count as melee swings, so Rune Strike actually will generate runic power with the Scent of Blood aura on you (though Blood Strike will not).

As clarified by a poster above, Rune Strike will also proc the Necrosis damage.