A plea to remove replenishment

Q u o t e:
Replenishment is causing strange acrobatics to be taken with regard to regeneration balancing. Blizzard has made an assumption that all raid group members will have access to a replenishment buff. If that is the case, then why not just build it into the class?

Because it makes classes with Replenishment someone you want to invite.

While WoW permits and encourages soloing to some extent when compared to some other MMOs, the endgame for both PvP and PvE are designed around grouping. We like that it matters who you are grouped with. We don't want you to be able to just bring all of your buffs with you. We like that you are much more powerful when grouping, in part because you benefit from the stacking effects of so many different buffs.

Replenishment is a very powerful and unique buff, meaning it' isn't just another version of more attack power or spellpower. However, you can't stack more than a couple of Replenishment classes and gain additional benefits from Replenishment alone. For 3.1 we expanded the number of classes who offer Replenishment to give you more flexibility in how you earn the buff.

Now all that said, you can group without it. There isn't a guardian at the door who checks for Replenishment before it lets you pass. Mana regen will be harder for you than a group with the buff however, and you may need to compensate in other ways, such as how you gear or the other buffs you have. If your dps is high enough and your tanks survive, then the threat of running out of mana won't be so scary.

Q u o t e:
I'm not sure if people don't understand what "bring the player, not the class" means, or choose to ignore that meaning to support whatever agenda is being pushed.

In TBC, there was 1 class and 1 spec that provided massive mana regen. It also stacked without limits. Now there are many classes and specs that provide Replenishment. Blizzard has repeatedly stated they didn't mean any class will be identical to all other classes in effectiveness for your last raid slot. Blizzard has provided a bunch of options you can choose from to get Replenishment, but expects you to choose one of those options. If any choice were a valid choice, there would be no incentive to think about the choice you make. Blizzard wants you to think about your group composition.

Quoting Totemtoter here.

Q u o t e:
Now, you've made it so that a specific spec, one with a poorly thought out mana regen buff, is now essential to a successful raiding group.

You could say “You’ve made it so that a specific spec, one that can take big hits but is dependent on other players for healing, is now essential to a successful raiding group.” Can the tank function without a healer? No. Except under very contrived circumstances, you cannot run a raid with 2 tanks and 8 dps classes. But nobody says that because everyone is pretty used to the idea that tanks and healers are required for raiding. They are used to the idea because it isn’t a new concept. We are adding one more role that you need. You can fill that role with 1 player in a 10-player raid or 2 players in a 25-player raid. (And arguably that role is still far less mandatory than a healer to keep the tank alive.)

Q u o t e:
The idea is to have some flexibility while still not all having the exact same set of things. It is all levels of degree as I would argue trying to do stringent dps races without some of these buffs (like heroism) would be silly to. At the same time, it isn't a super rigid requirement for our raids so that we can have much more flexibility than we used to have while still feeling like our raiders have some type of contribution greater than just what they do individually.

Yes.

I think at this point the discussion is less about clarifying our position and more about some players just not liking the concept of Replenishment or wanting even more flexibility in who they invite. I’m not sure logical arguments are going to sway anyone’s position. Nevertheless, I will attempt to outline the design from our point of view:

-- We want you to group.
-- We want you to be more powerful when you group.
-- One way we do that is by letting you benefit from buffs that other players bring.
-- We can’t give everyone a unique buff that guarantees them a raid slot. We tried this in BC. What happens is that the classes with necessary buffs are brought and the others are ignored. There are 10 classes and 30 specs in the game. You can’t bring them all to a 25-player raid or certainly a 10-player raid.
-- We asked some cutting-edge raiders during LK development: How many balance druids, ret paladins or death knights are you going to bring? The answer was probably none. They didn’t have any space.
-- So our solution was to give you multiple ways to get the buffs. Different specs bring different versions of the same benefit that do not stack. Hopefully those specs will be attractive, but not so attractive that you want to stack the raid with them. You have more flexibility. You can make decisions about which players to bring.
-- In BC, Shadow priests brought the buff that we now call Replenishment. As a result, Shadow priests were pretty much mandatory to raid in BC. Great for Shadow priests. Bad for other dps classes. Our solution was not to cut the mechanic but to offer it to more specs to give you more flexibility.
-- Now we could have cut the mechanic. We could have tried to come up with another cool benefit that Shadow priests, Retribution paladins and the others bring. But the mechanic worked. Groups were happy when they had a Shadow priest. Shadow priests were happy that their groups were happy.
-- Depending on who you ask, there are other buffs that are mandatory. Bloodlust / Heroism and battle rez get brought up a lot. Kings and Fort are pretty huge. We don’t assume you have any of those, except Replenishment. We assume you have a tank, healer, dps, some form of crowd control, and a mana battery in your raids.
-- As a hedge on that bet, we also made the introductory content easier. Far more players have experienced Naxxramas compared to Karazhan, and we think that is a big win.
-- If you didn’t raid a lot in BC, you may not remember how bad it was then. Perhaps you want even more flexibility than we offer today. That is a valid standpoint to take, but it definitely does get harder for us to offer content of an appropriate challenge (meaning neither too high nor too low) when your group can literally be of any composition with any medley of raid buffs.
-- Similarly, if you are skilled and organized, you can likely get by even without essential buffs like Replenishment. Some of you will probably beat hard modes without Replenishment. Others of you won’t dream of trying without it, Bloodlust, Prayer of Fortitude, Blessing of Kings, Mark of the Wild and so on. We are not at all guaranteeing every group will be able to beat the hard modes. Remember, Algalon feeds on your tears.
-- We don’t think you need Replenishment (or any buff) to do heroic 5-player content. You do need a tank and a healer. You probably don’t even need a tank or healing spec, depending on your skill and gear (meaning an Arms warrior and Ret healer could do fine).
-- We don’t think you need Replenishment to do a 5-player Arena team, but it can be a nice bonus.
-- We don’t think you need Replenishment to solo. The issue of how often various classes or specs should have to take a break while soloing (i.e. drink for mana-users) is something we discuss a lot. Some specs don’t have to do it at all, such as any priest with Spirit Tap. Classes with healing spells, especially druids, can top themselves off and keep going. Other classes without mana, especially warriors, have a lot of down time to eat or bandage. It’s a larger discussion, but you can certainly make a compelling argument that every spec should have around the same down time.

I think by now most of you know what “Bring the player not the class” is intended to mean. It doesn’t mean your raid of 10 Holy paladins is going to be very successful. Most players aren’t arguing that point because it seems like a silly position to take. So I think we all agree that it is a matter of degree and expectation. In Sunwell, specs with bad buffs were sat out. Specs that needed a jigsaw puzzle of buffs in their 5-player group within the raid in order to be useful were sat out. Other specs or classes were stacked to a pretty ridiculous degree. We don’t think that design was good for the game. If you have a good friend you want to raid with, you should have plenty of room in your raid now to bring them. You don’t need their buff, because you are able to get it through another raid member. You’re not missing any buffs, because they are almost all raid wide. There are many configurations that will let you get what you need and still have a few slots to spare. For those spots, you can bring the player, because you don’t need their class. Now if it’s a hard mode, that player better be good….

Q u o t e:
Not every spec is raid viable. End of story. Some class/specs just don't make sense in a raid - and people spec them for other reasons. On the reverse I have to spec a certain way - for the most part cookie cutter - to be raid viable. Why do I have to sacrifice and not the less than desirable specs.

You could be arguing one of two things here. One, certain specs are not currently raid viable. That is something we are working hard to fix, though we realize it's challenging. I think it is safe to say it is currently as close as it has ever been, at least for PvE. Second, that you prefer a design where some trees are for PvP or soloing or whatever. That is a valid design. It just isn't the design we are going with.

Q u o t e:
How does this relate to butchering healer mana efficiency instead of lowering the benefit provided by Replenishment? I really don't understand why Healers can't maximize their own personal mana regen unless they have an outside buff provided by another class.

I am sure warriors would love to not need all of those +attack power buffs in order to be able to maximize their personal dps. Tanks would love to have 45,000 health when soloing. We don't want you to be able to maximize when alone. The reward for grouping is getting all of those big numbers.

By the same token, tanks don't need 45,000 health when they aren't getting hit by bosses, and healers don't need massive mana regeneration when they aren't healing tanks getting hit by bosses.

Q u o t e:
Why would it be such a problem to bump out of COMBAT mana regen to higher levels for healers (not out of five-second-rule, but out of combat)? This would prevent abuse of it during a boss fight and add a dynamic element to PvP (you should keep the healer in combat so they cannot regen as fast and cannot drink, much like currently).

That is definitely something we can consider. At some point there is no need for water at all, but maybe that’s okay.

Q u o t e:
I remember when it was first said. There was no hidden meaning, he used face value. Then somewhere along the way, it changed, but he didn't tell anybody.

I came up with the statement, and I first used it in our 08 Blizzcon presentation. The context was the same as it is today: much more flexibility in how you piece together your raid buff package so that you can bring good players who don’t offer mandatory buffs. At the same time, it has the limitation of any cute mantra: it is only a general rule, doesn’t apply in every situation, and can be interepreted different ways. I agree with many posters that it is a better use of time to debate the merits of Replenishment then to try and trap us with BTPNTC.

Q u o t e:
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Q u o t e:
That isn't getting stronger in groups, that's getting weaker without them.
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This. All 18 pages basically sum up to this.

Aren't you really just comparing two numbers though? The number 5 is smaller than the number 10. You can’t compare either to an absolute number to know which one is the “wrong” number. You are weaker alone than in a group. That has always been our design. And, in Lich King you are stronger alone than you have ever been because you don’t have all of that +healing gear getting in the way of your dps.

Q u o t e:
shouldn't we already want these classes? Why are you bribing us to bring them?

Because we want to make it unattractive to invite 7 rogues or 7 priests or whatever. Having different buffs is what encourages having a mix of classes. It only got to be a problem in BC when that mix became so inflexible that certain classes were just shut out of raids. Sorry, we can’t take a second rogue because you’d have to be in the group with the casters and your dps would suffer. We want you to have some flexibility with who you invite. We don’t want you to have complete flexibility.

Q u o t e:
Your DPS example is cute and all, but healer output is not increased by Replenishment. Replenishment provides the healer with mana. That's it. Other roles get better with buffs. DPS hit harder, tanks get better threat and more avoidance. Healers gain the ability to function with Replenishment.

That argues healers are stronger than other classes when solo since it is not your output that is diminished when alone. It is only your regeneration and I haven’t seen too many arguments from healers that say they are OOM after healing themselves from a typical solo encounter.

Put another way, here are the common concerns I see:

1) We don't want to rely on other classes for superior mana regen when grouping.
2) We won't have enough mana regen in 5-player content.
3) We won't have enough mana regen when soloing.
4) We will have too much downtime when soloing.

1 is just the design of the game. 4 is a concern. We aren't convinved 2 and 3 are going to be a big deal.

EDIT: Actually, I will add a 5th, which is that Replenishment makes Int much better than Spirit. There is some validity to that point, but at the same time, Spirit still does something for casters (it is rarely wasted) and you are not often choosing directly between Int and Spirit. But mana regen stats are something we are taking a bigger look at. Either Spirit or Int or mp5 always feels like the queen stat and it is probably not tenable to have so many regen stats in the long term.