Does real data lies about class DPS balance?

#0 - Feb. 24, 2009, 4:03 p.m.

Patchwerk speed kills, ignoring anon reports (and the ... fake one at the top.)
http://wowwebstats.com/?npc=16028

Just looking at the list of reports from top to bottom

Lead: Mages breaking 7K DPS.
Lead: Mages 6.5k , rogues 7k.
Lead: Rogues 7k/8k, followed by mage
Lead: Mages, 6800+
Lead: Warlock, 7600, mage 6500
Lead: Mages, 6600/6800
Lead: Rogue, 7000
Lead: Warlock, 6900 then DK, mages
Lead: Mages, 6700
Lead: Mage, 6500
Lead: A warrior, 6k.

Based on that browsing, I'd like to ask a few questions.

1. What data outside of personal experience within guilds gives the impression fury warrior DPS scales too well or is doing too well in raids?

2. Doesnt consistent data showing casters and other classes pulling 6-7K DPS on patchwerk kills not imply they scale too well, or are doing too well in raids and could be considered for a 10% reduction?

3. If fury warriors are doing too much DPS based on a "world" average and not just an "awesome player average" as shown in these numbers, have you ever considered that a fury warrior is much easier to theorycraft and itemize than a caster, whereas only the best of best casters can reach those kinds of numbers by thoroughly knowing their class or extreme stacking? Would this not show that the problem really lies in the complexity of other classes and their difficulty to play them, compared to the simplicity of fury?

You can summarize how to itemize your warrior and play your DPS rotation correctly in one post. You don't need 50 page threads, 10 graphs, two simulators, an excel spreadsheet, a castbar that reflects latency, stopcasting macros or anything of that sort. But the way other classes are designed this sort of intense research is required to pull decent numbers, and anyone who doesnt spend hours upon hours of reading will never be more than 'average'

4. Have you considered that the problem with fury lies within rage mechanics, thus allowing us to own on a handful of fights where we are constantly taking damage and therefore giving us an advantage, then gimping us on the next encounter where we don't take much damage at all if any? On fights we take constant damage everyone looks at the damage meters and says "Woa...." leaving a lasting impression, but don't compare that against the second encounter where we take none, or care. "Woa" is still in there mind

WotlK finally gave fury a place in raids and a reason to take them, whereas before you had to be darned good to keep a raid spot and you would still always come in middle of the road. A DPS warrior was commonly only taken for Blood Frenzy and always behind the others.

Was this not part of the WotlK theme - making all classes viable and competitive in raids? I know its annoying (and quite sutpid) to read outrageous claims that quote that motto back and forth, or twisting it to imply we should be able to take 10 prot warriors 8 paladins to a raid like idiots and still win. (Or, to argue raz should be changed.)

But such numbers imply we are just being punished for being able to switch gear, respec and tank as well.

http://wowwebstats.com/klz5y1rxcla25?s=571305-592100
http://wowwebstats.com/dpy13qjjidbu1?s=592327-616078
http://wowwebstats.com/bppeocixcgjo3?s=502281-530206
http://wowwebstats.com/s6fmb4rczuqbs?s=131984-153268
http://wowwebstats.com/326y6vi3srgd1?s=476748-503002
http://wowwebstats.com/pfqn6we4tdagu?s=414791-437592
http://wowwebstats.com/ydikcktsl3lju?s=50382-78777
http://wowwebstats.com/lvshtmf1wsflk?s=333956-357841
http://wowwebstats.com/sixhnw32jypic?s=134681-160023
http://wowwebstats.com/3xvuzzv4hyhfe?s=264745-290557
http://wowwebstats.com/qyxpvuhxdohac?s=110517-133771

#27 - Feb. 24, 2009, 9:29 p.m.

We don't balance base around class populations. We might look at those numbers, however, and try and figure out why some are higher or lower than others. Overpowered specs tend to be popular, but so do specs that are fun, easy to play, consistent with a player's play style, or perhaps even iconic. We do not however just nerf popular specs in order to force players to abadon them.

Whether you want to use the word "hybrid" or not, our goal is that *all things being equal* rogues, mages, locks and hunters are slightly ahead on the meters. I emphasize all things being equal, because they often are not. The specifics of the encounter, other buffs present gear, skill and even latency all have an effect. Sometimes warriors will "win the meters." Sometimes bad warriors will be down there with the healers.

Fury warriors were doing more damage than we wanted them to do.

However, I have also noticed a consistent theme on the forums of players comparing themselves to overpowered classes and concluding that they are fine (or perhaps even expect buffs).