Rogues - Why I don't bring them. (PvE Post)

#0 - Jan. 30, 2009, 3:45 a.m.

Rogues.... The class that is probably the most in need of a major overhaul for PvE (Not PvP).

All day I decided to group with Rogues. I've grouped with awful rogues with awful gear, to great rogues with great gear. I've spec'd with the inbetween as well. I've gone through 10-12 Rogues today and honestly.... I can't justify bringing them with me to a raid or even a 5man anymore..

Why not you ask?

1.) Rogue DPS in every spec lacks in regards to PvE
2.) Rogue's lack a sufficient AoE in World of AoEcraft to keep up (Please note Fan of Knives is weak and annoying to listen to when spammed, we've gone from lolvolley Hunters to lolknives Rogues as well on some players).
3.) Rogues lack any buffs that would allow them in a raid / grp should they lack 1 & 2 (which they do).

So to sum up.

They don't have the DPS, their 1 AoE makes a really annoying noise when spammed, and they can't sufficiently buff to compete with other classes.

Other classes bring more DPS on average even if the Player / Gear combined is awful. I've seen almost 1 of every class in greens manage 1K dps, Rogues in epics have a tough time getting 1.5K dps. I also find it odd that their Druid counter parts have no problem getting 1.5K in awful gear and 3+K in great gear but I don't have as many examples for that as Ferals are rare on my server currently.

Each class brings a buff of some sort in addition to their dps. Even when players have mild gear and play casually they still do more dps or are on par with great Rogues.

Think about it, each class has a buff that contributes somehow.

-Mages have their increased INT buff along with their increased Crit % buff on the mob.

-Shamans bring totems along with their own respective talent based buffs (Ench shammy increases grp AP, Ele helps w/caster hit).

-Druids bring increased Crit in one form or another

-Pallies bring their Blessings & Ret brings haste / mana regen.

-Warriors bring shouts... and stuff (my least familiar class).

-Warlocks bring curse of elements / shards / demon pet buffs

-Hunters bring Ferocity / Aura / Trap bonuses, 1 of something in each spec.

-DKs bring +Melee dmg if blood, +haste if frost, +magic dmg if unholy

- Priests bring +SP / + Fort / +Mana regen

Rogues brings low dps and buffs that cannot compare w/those above.

Please help Rogue, but until you do. I have no room for them =/.

Ghostcrawler

#27 - Jan. 30, 2009, 4:59 a.m.

Q u o t e:
1.) Rogue DPS in every spec lacks in regards to PvE
2.) Rogue's lack a sufficient AoE in World of AoEcraft to keep up (Please note Fan of Knives is weak and annoying to listen to when spammed, we've gone from lolvolley Hunters to lolknives Rogues as well on some players).
3.) Rogues lack any buffs that would allow them in a raid / grp should they lack 1 & 2 (which they do).

1) I think this is totally valid and we owe rogues some dps. We have been cautious because we can't afford to give them any more PvP dps and those crafty rogues tend to use PvE dps for PvP.

2) This is not a big concern of ours. The goal is not to make every dps class equal on every single encounter. Mages, locks, ele shamans and boomkins (and possibly hunters) have great AE. Not every class needs great AE. We want rogues, DKs, ferals, warriors, enhancement shammies and everyone I have forgotten to do decent enough AE that they don't feel dumb standing around on AE pulls. Every pull currently feels like an AE pull. It won't always be that way.

3) I think this falls in between 1 and 2. Classes aren't supposed to have buffs so good that you always want to bring them. We built a lot of redundancy into the system. However we are taking a hard look at cases where someone's buff comes easier or more reliably than another class. Saying "every raid has a warrior" isn't very compelling in our mind. Saying "their buff is a passive ability while ours is a proc that takes 5 talent points" is a bigger deal we need to fix.