25-Man Raid Latency contd.

UPDATE 02/03/09 12:50 PM PST:

Okay guys, our Community team has begun requesting information regarding the most recent round of optimizations that have been implemented!

You can find that thread here:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14893179202&sid=1

Q u o t e:
In our continuing effort to improve the gameplay experience for our players, we’ve recently made optimizations, specifically to Naxxramas performance, based on feedback from players. With these changes, we are carefully monitoring server performance to gauge the change’s success. In addition to that, we would very much like to hear our players' personal experience in Naxxramas this week. We are asking players to post your feedback in terms of what if any changes in performance you’ve noticed in Naxxramas. Please make sure to include the realm you play on and the time frame you were participating in Naxxramas.

Please post your feedback there. You can use the following format (and as always, you can find your battlegroup here (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/battlegrounds/battlegroups/index.html):

Realm:
Battlegroup:
Approximate raid time:
Description of Conditions:

UPDATE 01/23/09 5:25 PM PST:

As a note for players on Emberstorm and Whirlwind, this was recently posted on our General Forum by Zarhym.

How much this will impact raid performance itself is yet to be seen. In any case, I thought it would be of keen interest to raiders on those battlegroups:

Realm Performance – Emberstorm and Whirlwind
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14595029570

Q u o t e:
We recently identified and isolated an issue impacting the performance of realms on the Emberstorm and Whirlwind battlegroups. We want to inform players on these realms that this issue has been resolved, and you should expect to see better performance and stability in game.

Antonidas
Anub'arak
Blackwater Raiders
Bladefist
Borean Tundra
Cairne
Cenarion Circle
Cenarius
Darrowmere
Drak'Tharon
Drenden
Echo Isles
Farstriders
Fenris
Garrosh
Hydraxis
Hyjal
Korialstrasz
Lightbringer
Maiev
Misha
Mok'Nathal
Moon Guard
Nazgrel
Nordrassil
Quel'dorei
Ravenholdt
Rivendare
Shandris
Shu'halo
Sisters of Elune
The Forgotten Coast
Tortheldrin
Uther
Vashj
Winterhoof
Wyrmrest Accord

UPDATE 01/21/09 10:17 AM PST:

Okay, it's rather clear at this point that many raids are still suffering latency that is as severe, if not more severe than what was occurring previously.

For that, you have my heartfelt apologies.

On the other hand, a small handful of posters have reported dramatically improved conditions. I'd like to see where the most severe issues are occurring, as well as which raids seem to have improved.

If you are no longer experiencing major latency in raiding, please report your realm and battlegroup (to find out which battlegroup you are in, you can go here (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/battlegrounds/battlegroups/index.html):

Realm:
Battlegroup:
Approximate raid time:
No/Little Latency: Brief description of conditions

For the majority of you that still seem to be experiencing heightened latency, please report in the following format:

Realm:
Battlegroup:
Approximate raid time:
Latency: Brief description of conditions

At this point, I am trying to determine if improved conditions are related to realm, battlegroup or raid time frame factors. I will be forwarding the information I gather here as I have previously.

Q u o t e:
So can anyone confirm that the patch today contains the "fix" that we are waiting for? Should we plan raids for tonight?

You can schedule raids tonight, and I'll be avidly looking for updates on conditions.

Honestly though, were I running a guild, I'd probably avoid scheduling raids on maintenance days since unforeseen things can occur and maintenance can be extended on some occasions.

Q u o t e:
nothing in the notes about any lag fix though

This change was announced and discussed on the forums and never was part of the notes, nor is it likely to be.

Q u o t e:
i interpreted that as, not everyone is aware of this issue and we don't want them to be.

It is unfortunate that very clear language can be interpreted to mean things that were never said. Patch notes typically address in-game issues, whereas these optimizations are occurring on several planes, but at a more fundamental level than a typical 'bug fix'. Thus, while such things are sometimes included in patch notes, they often are not.
There really isn't as much between the lines as a lot of forum-goers seem to think there is =/.

Regardless, as I've been personally tracking this issue since when it essentially began, I'm intimately aware of how affecting this is.

I'm certain that I'm right there with those most ardently emotionally involved with this situation in hoping that the resolutions included in this patch do the trick.

Hey guys.

If it hasn't been obvious, Wintergrasp has been more than a little wonky since the patch, and that might be directly contributing to the conditions you are seeing in raids.

Bornakk just made this post in the General forum, and you may want to keep an eye on things there to see if Wintergrasp will be temporarily disabled:

Battle For Wintergrasp Disabled
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14498161183&sid=1

Q u o t e:
We’re actively investigating Wintergrasp impacting realm stability and we’re working to resolve these issues. If needed, we may temporarily disable the Battle for Wintergrasp on all realms. If this should happen, players will still be able to venture into the zone, but will not be able to participate in the Battle itself.

We thank you for your patience as we work to address these issues.

Should Wintergrasp be disabled, or this issue be resolved more completely, you may want to try your raids then to see if conditions have improved.

Q u o t e:
The server Winterhoof is brand new, honestly no more then 5-6 horde in wintergrasp and there is no lag at all there.

As soon as we engage a raid boss, the lag will disconnect people as well as give 9/10 players a lag spike.

Please investigate this issue ASAP. Other's will check into this thread to inform you that this has nothing to do with our wintergrasp, its not our MS thats the problem, its just this giant lag spike during boss fights.

We are unable to kill malygos or any other bosses. This has been going on all week and the patch didn't fix a thing. We can't even kill a raid boss.

The issue isn't latency in Wintergrasp specifically, but other technical issues occurring related to the Wintergrasp battle.

While I know you're all eager to get raiding, it may prove a less frustrating course to wait for this issue with Wintergrasp to be addressed prior to planning any raiding activities tonight.

Q u o t e:
Server: Drenden
Battlegroup: Emberstorm
Date: date of this post
Time: time of this post

Details: 25 man raid on Patchwwerk. Attempt #1. 13 people dc'd within 30 seconds of the pull.

Results: Wipe.

Conclusion: 25 man latency issues NOT Fixed.

Please stop =(.

Wintergrasp is currently causing extensive realm wide issues. Until these issues are resolved, we can't draw any effective conclusions about raiding. Posts of this nature aren't helping, because we aren't in a position to gather viable information yet.

I don't know how to be more clear than that. It might be a good idea to save your raiders a headache by suspending raiding until this is resolved. Hopefully quite soon, but that is yet to be seen.

Q u o t e:


...

I am sorry but this answer is unacceptable. Though I am guessing that by making this rather strange statement to raiders in a game that is approx. 75% raiding content, you are coming close to a solution, so I will ignore this crazy suggestion, hoping a resolution comes soon.

It's not the 'answer' Belmin. It's temporary a suggestion so that your raiders aren't unduly frustrated while a serious issue is addressed, that's all.

Should you wish to persist in raiding despite these conditions, that is, of course, at your discretion. I have no wish to misrepresent anything, that's all.

Q u o t e:
I came in here to complain about the lag...obviously your getting enough of it. so instead i'm going to beg. Please do what you can to fix this, or temporarily fix this or something as soon as possible :( . 3.08 is a cool new patch. really happy about it. but yeah....you know.


With much love,
Dulcar

Aw, I love you too. And yeah, I know =(.

The raw fact is, we are working on it. We're very likely going to try some alterations to Wintergrasp first.

I realize how, especially after waiting for the patch, this is probably ridiculously frustrating. I completely feel that, and I truly am sorry =(. We'll see how the chips fall after this Wintergrasp thing is tied up.

Q u o t e:
HAHAHAHA, AHAHAHAHAH, AHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAA

I'll make another spread sheet if this goes on long enough. Just to reminisce.

You're makin' me misty-eyed here, Raegx. I really hope it doesn't prove necessary.

Okay, as many of you know, Wintergrasp is being disabled for the time being.

For those of you still attempting to raid, after it is disabled on your realm, can you let me know if this affects your raid latency at all?

Okay, it's rather clear at this point that many raids are still suffering latency that is as severe, if not more severe than what was occurring previously.

For that, you have my heartfelt apologies.

On the other hand, a small handful of posters have reported dramatically improved conditions. I'd like to see where the most severe issues are occurring, as well as which raids seem to have improved.

If you are no longer experiencing major latency in raiding, please report your realm and battlegroup (to find out which battlegroup you are in, you can go here (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/battlegrounds/battlegroups/index.html):

Realm:
Battlegroup:
Approximate raid time:
No/Little Latency: Brief description of conditions

For the majority of you that still seem to be experiencing heightened latency, please report in the following format:

Realm:
Battlegroup:
Approximate raid time:
Latency: Brief description of conditions

At this point, I am trying to determine if improved conditions are related to realm, battlegroup or raid time frame factors. I will be forwarding the information I gather here as I have previously.

Q u o t e:
Ok, Im not sure why this got deleted, but here was my great speculative post!

page 7

Why would you delete this? Did the pin land on the delete key instead of the Donkeys ........?

Why?

Because that post was both incorrect and useless to those experiencing this issue.

If you'd like to contribute constructively, then please feel free to do so using the format provided. Persistence in trolling a thread of this nature will very likely have unfortunate consequences. One way or another I will periodically edit or delete posts in this thread to keep it on track.

Q u o t e:
I guess this is probably just rattling sabers at this point ... I appologize for that. I just feel I have a responsibility to my raiders not to waste their time, and am just diligently trying to read through what I consider to be less than informative and forthcoming information on the subject. I mean, why is it so much to ask for a little clarification? I tried posting a separate thread, but that was locked and I was pointed here, so I asked the questions here, and they have gone largely unanswered .. or the answers I have gotten (from customers, not employees) have only left me more bewildered.

Nah, don't apologize =(.

You guys have every right to be upset about this situation, and it has gone on for far longer than anyone wants.

Obviously, patch 3.0.8 brought with it a number of issues. We're working through them as swiftly as we're able to, but I still haven't heard anything specific regarding what is being done to address the raiding conditions you guys have described.

I've delayed a response in the hopes that I'd have something to provide for you by now. Unfortunately, there aren't any updates currently available except to say that we're still working around the clock to address these issues.

So, to sum up: Yes, we're still aware that raiding is suffering from major latency, and yes, we are working to resolve it. We still have no ETA available, nor do I have information regarding what the causes are or what is being done to address the matter.

You guys have once again stepped up and are providing stellar information. I sincerely hope that your patience is rewarded soon.

Q u o t e:
If you want me to suspend raiding till problem is fixed, Thats is not a problem but since i only play game to raid I assume Blizz. will be paying for my wasted game time.????

I sincerely apologize if you haven't been able to raid as smoothly as you'd prefer, but please don't put words in my mouth. I was offering that advice to those that were complaining of utterly unplayable conditions, to help avoid raider burnout.

If you feel that the latency in raids merits compensation, the only effective and appropriate place to request it is on our Suggestions forum. Just to be up front, though, compensation is usually only considered when World of Warcraft as a whole becomes inaccessible for a long period of time, not so much when certain aspects of game play are experiencing issues. That does not, however, totally preclude the possibility of compensation in this case - I'm merely speaking in generalities.

Our people are still working hard to improve conditions in Raids, guys. There is a light at the end of the tunnel, and there is still a whole lot that is going on. When I have more information I'll let you know.

Q u o t e:
It is NOT possible on some realms to raid, nor has it been for some time. Depending on the server, and the raid time, some encounters cannot be overcome with the current conditions.

Very well, Bastion. You seem certain that it is impossible to raid, and I am very interested in investigating those conditions personally.

On which realm is it impossible to raid, and at what time? Are you a member of such a guild? If so, and if you are planning a raid soon, I will happily attend. Please let me know when first pull is, which character and realm you will be raiding on, and I will be there to observe. I will select another raid or two on the same realm and track their progress as well.

I have seen some pretty heavy latency, and some raids give up as a result. On the other hand, I have also seen other guilds on the same realms, at the same raid times, clear the entirety of Naxxramas.

Q u o t e:
You seem to want to prove to Bastion that he's wrong; goading him even on the basis of a technicality. Your conduct is extremely unbecoming of a Customer Support Representative. While the majority of us here reporting issues recognise that you are merely a messenger to assist in data collection and not to be scorned, what you posted in response to Bastion was not warranted. Blizzard is aware that there are latency issues and I personally appreciate that steps are likely being taken to resolve the matter. However, the Community is upset enough without your haphazard musings on the constituting factors of "impossibility." Shame on you. Next time, just stick to the prepared script.

Actually, I'm addressing the assertion that Bastion made in his original thread, and seeking to arrive at a conclusion regarding repeated statements that raiding is impossible. Not difficult or unpleasant, but impossible. It has been suggested by some posters that I am deceiving our players by stating that raiding is sub-optimal, and that raiding is, in fact, totally impossible. I wanted to be certain that I hadn't missed something, as I've striven to be as honest and forthright as I can be regarding this situation.

Hyperbole aids us not at all in our investigations, and if raid conditions were truly impossible, then I'd like to know of it. As a result, I offered my time to investigate such an occurrence personally, in detail, and with 'control' raids so that if there was another factor present I might be in a position to help Bastion's raid. In fact, I've observed 'the Claw' raids on several occasions, though not post-patch as yet.

I am truly sorry if you were offended, or feel that offering my attention and time in this case was an incorrect or inappropriate response in the face of these concerns.

Regardless, if you (or any other reader) would like to make any comments at all on my posting or moderation style, please feel free to send an email to wowgmfeedback-us@blizzard.com.

Q u o t e:
My statements that spurred him to this reply were equally harsh and incriminating. I don't think his reply was out of line in the slightest. I'm pleased he has stated he would like to observe the unplayability, and we are more than happy to have him.

I provided the details of our next run as asked back on page 44 after his reply, and hope to see him there and let him experience what so many customers are experiencing.

His offer to spend time experiencing the issue first-hand outweigh any perceived doubt imho.

Thank you Bastion.

While I would hope that the next round of resolutions will be in place prior to Tuesday, I don't know when they will be completed. If conditions remain as they are, then I will be observing the Claw's raid that night.

As a note for players on Emberstorm and Whirlwind, this was recently posted on our General Forum by Zarhym.

How much this will impact raid performance itself is yet to be seen. In any case, I thought it would be of keen interest to raiders on those battlegroups:

Realm Performance – Emberstorm and Whirlwind
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14595029570

Q u o t e:
We recently identified and isolated an issue impacting the performance of realms on the Emberstorm and Whirlwind battlegroups. We want to inform players on these realms that this issue has been resolved, and you should expect to see better performance and stability in game.

Antonidas
Anub'arak
Blackwater Raiders
Bladefist
Borean Tundra
Cairne
Cenarion Circle
Cenarius
Darrowmere
Drak'Tharon
Drenden
Echo Isles
Farstriders
Fenris
Garrosh
Hydraxis
Hyjal
Korialstrasz
Lightbringer
Maiev
Misha
Mok'Nathal
Moon Guard
Nazgrel
Nordrassil
Quel'dorei
Ravenholdt
Rivendare
Shandris
Shu'halo
Sisters of Elune
The Forgotten Coast
Tortheldrin
Uther
Vashj
Winterhoof
Wyrmrest Accord

Okay guys, I've received word that some ground work has apparently been put into place for a process that should reduce latency in Heroic Naxxramas and other raid instances. The next stage of optimizations has not, however, been implemented just yet.

It will take some time to ensure that all is ready, then the next stage should begin. When I receive word that the next round of optimizations is in place, I will open a new thread and gather data from you regarding raid conditions at that time.

A note for Bastion: I am currently observing the Claw's raid as agreed.

Q u o t e:
This is unbelievable... Spend less time fixing worthless bugs and more time fixing lag in the 25 mans...this is absolutely atrocious. A major portion of the game rendered completely unplayable is not the way to win back the masses. Nor is a pointless patch that has done nothing sort of crippling the game further!

Mannoroth
Ruin
1/27/08
730 PM - 830 PM was fine anything following was unplayable

I've been watching your raid in the Spider Wing, Caoiliann. Happy to see that Maexxna died easily for you.

Good luck on the rest of the instance.

Q u o t e:
Could this be new/more hardware or something along those lines? :-)

Wish I could say. Let's hope we see a substantial difference this time though, yes?

Q u o t e:
Not sure if last Friday's patch, or other changes improved things, but I will say the instance was playable all the way through, unlike previous weeks. Glad to hear they're still working on improving things, so we're hoping no relapses in the future. Anyway, thanks so much for observing as promised.

I'm glad that your run went smoothly =). I was particularly interested in Thaddius, since many raids have the most issues when facing him, and I was gratified to see the fight go so well for you guys.

I'm even happier to hear that some raids are also reporting reduced latency, though the reports from previously unaffected realms are a bit disturbing. Of course, I haven't forgotten for a second about those that are still experiencing the same level or latency or worse either.

Fortunately, we're not done yet, and as I stated before, once the newest round of optimizations (these should affect all realms) are in place I'll open a new thread to track latency and get a feel for who is still experiencing issues at that time.

Okay guys, our Community team has begun requesting information regarding the most recent round of optimizations that have been implemented!

You can find that thread here:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14893179202&sid=1

Q u o t e:
In our continuing effort to improve the gameplay experience for our players, we’ve recently made optimizations, specifically to Naxxramas performance, based on feedback from players. With these changes, we are carefully monitoring server performance to gauge the change’s success. In addition to that, we would very much like to hear our players' personal experience in Naxxramas this week. We are asking players to post your feedback in terms of what if any changes in performance you’ve noticed in Naxxramas. Please make sure to include the realm you play on and the time frame you were participating in Naxxramas.

Please post your feedback there. You can use the following format (and as always, you can find your battlegroup here (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/battlegrounds/battlegroups/index.html):

Realm:
Battlegroup:
Approximate raid time:
Description of Conditions: