We don't need a priest anymore....

Threads like this are tough because they start out bad and I just want to lock them but then Jastia goes and says some really smart things that I would love for people to see.

Q u o t e:
The fact that Blizzard's vision of a what a priest is different of what player's vision of priest =/= Blizzard doesn't care.

It only means that they disagree.

A lot of players seem to rach the conclusion that if Blizzard doesn't agree with me then it means they don't care. If anything I'd say they care much more now than in BC when we had no feedback whatsoever. There're blue psosts every day commenting on player questions.

That these answers are not to everybody's liking is another matter. You now know the reason for the nerf, if if you think it's a stupid reason, as opposed to be left out in the dark. People like to say 'GC is useless, doesn't reply to anything, only posts useless info blah blah blah' are just reading what they want to read. We now have much more information on class development 3 months into Wrath than we ever in the whole BC.

And seriously, they can't cater for everyone.

Just yesterday there was this thread on Titan's Grip. People saying it was overpowered blah blah blha and it should have never been buffed, while conveniently forgetting that months ago in the Beta people were complaining about Titan's Grip was worthless with the hit penalty. GC mentioned this, and forum posters replied back along the lines of 'Hey yeah but that wasn't me. *MOST* players didn't feel it was useless. Only a *FEW* people wanted it buffed to what it is now. Blizzard doesn't listen to us.'

If GC posting over and over again trying to clarify where the priest class is heading and what are their intentions for the future and saying: Hey we're listening. We'll certainly take your feedback into account when trying any priests changes in 3.1 and beyond is not caring then what is? Fixing discipline bugs anyone? Trying to make discipline viable for PVE? Acceding to all of the priest community's demands?

It’s ironic because we have actually ended up discussing priests so much lately. Usually the discussion starts with me asking other designers to help me understand the issue. I must admit to being at a little bit of a loss over why so many priests seem so dissatisfied with the class (and to be fair, there are many players there with the opposite feedback). I usually don’t find myself at such odds with the community, but in this case I am still having trouble understanding the issue. (And I apologize in advance to the druids, shamans and paladins who feel priest issues already dominate this forum.) I don’t honestly think that priests are just so upset about the CoH nerf that it makes them turn their back on the class. A lot of players seem really unhappy with the role of the priest as having lots of tools. I have a priest and I heal a lot. Prayer of Mending is a fun spell. Guardian Spirit is a fun spell. Those are just the tip of a pretty big toolbox.

So if you want us to be on the same page, and certainly if you ever hope to see any changes that fix the problem for you, you’re going to have to put down your weapons, step away from the rhetoric, turn off the CAPS LOCK, and try and explain to us what we’re missing.

Q u o t e:
The level of PvE complaining on the forum is unjustified and I suspect not representative of the Priest population.

There are, of course, some things PvE Priests could stand to have tweaked. (Hymns, the relative weakness of Greater Heal in a Disc spec, and Prayer of Healing limited to current party come to mind.) But really...nothing earthshaking. Many players have no perspective or sense of history. Overall the Priest class in PvE is better than it has EVER been.

It is possible you are correct, Nightshroud. However in this case it doesn’t necessarily come down a vote of whether more priests are happy or unhappy. Clearly some preists are painfully unhappy, and since I tend to lean in your direction and think that priests are in pretty good shape, modulo some bugs, I am trying to understand their point of view.

Some of you posit that priests just have some bugs or perhaps awkward mechanics or talent placements. Fair enough. We have fixed many bugs in 3.0.8 and we are looking at the talents for 3.1. However, my sense is that several of the posters on this thread are not talking about that. They are just unhappy with the priest’s role. That is why the toolbox analogies keep getting invoked.

Q u o t e:
For me the last straw was when GC told us we'd never be on par with the other healing classes. Disc, the promised premier on par with Holy Paladin single target tree? Sorry, no, never be on par with them. Holy, the promised premier on par with Resto Shaman AoE tree? Sorry, no, never be on par with them. And as it stands Resto Druids have equivalent versatility to healing Priests but more utility.

I don’t think I would have said that. I said if Renew is as good as Regrowth / Rejuv or if Flash Heal is as good as Flash of Light, then you start to wonder what the other classes are for since priests can do it all. Priests absolutely can and do top the healing meters, if that is how you judge “on par.” Priests do and will get invited to top-raiding groups, if that is how you measure “on par.”

Q u o t e:
Being mediocre at all 3 of them [hots, spams and AEs] doesn't make us feel like we have any direction in a raid.

I think this is where you and I would differ. Just because you can’t out Flash a paladin does not mean you are mediocre. I think some priests are obsessing about “What if Blizzard is designing me to be the second place class?” We’re not, and I suspect if you go out there and use all of your spells, you will find you can keep a lot of people alive or achieve whatever milestone you personally use to define being a good healer. Mages and hunters are both ranged classes and use very different spells and abilities to do damage. That does not mean one of them is designed as the best dps class. One of them may dominate on some bosses and the other on other encounters, but that does not mean that a raid will stack all hunters and boot the mages. If the mages are good, they will get invites.

Q u o t e:
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Q u o t e:
From an outsider's point of view, from reading this thread it seems like you priests can't even agree on what day of the week it is.
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Move along mage. You aren't helping ... your just trolling.

Perhaps it’s a troll (sometimes it is hard to tell), but it does point out something that I often try to encourage players to pay attention to. Many players claim ”everyone feels the way I do,” while conveniently ignoring the players that do not. Even the priests who say they are unhappy differ a lot on why they are unhappy or what the solutions are. I’m not saying Blizzard throws up our hands unless the community is 100% on lock step, because that never happens. I am asking you to be careful with waving around the words “everyone” or “all” too much. Some players are careful to say “in my opinion,” and we could probably stand a lot more of that.

Trivia for you: Holy priest is the most common healing spec and one of the most common specs (top 5) in WoW at level 80. I am not using that to justify any arguments. I just thought you would find it interesting.

Q u o t e:
As he says, he agrees with the people that think priests are fine. Its a human flaw to want to find opinions that concur with your own and give them more weight than the ones that don't.

Yeah, I was up front about that. I think priests are fine, so that is why I am here trying to understand the players who disagree so we can find a common ground and possibly even fix the problems you are having.

I was trying to caution the players who were saying something to the effect of fix our bugs and buff our spells and all will be right with the world, because I don't think that is what some of the concerned players are looking for.