Hunter Consolidated Feedback P2

#1 - Aug. 23, 2014, 3:27 p.m.

original thread is here

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/13734993491#1

Let's get this going again, guys. I promise to keep my snark to a minimum if you guys do!

General Concerns:

MM - too slow, not engaging or interactive

SV - everyone wants a CD and kill shot back

BM - Working as Intended

this was the original post

this thread is for discussing hunter things, like mechanics, boring or bad, or both

this is not a 'we need to do more dps' thread

some general overviews of some of these flaws in just our dps rotation

MM feels slow with a basic 122122122 rotation (22 can be replaced with 3 which would be fervor CD from talents) other than that this is the basic rotation or MM for anything with a CD of or less than 30 seconds, because currently chimaera shot is not worth using in single target

edit:the recent nerf to aimed shot appears to have made it better to use chimaera now, great way to fix it, make the other shots weaker ... lol

pvp wise it is way to heavily reliant on casted spells for 90% of its ability based damage

SV has huge focus starvation issues at higher levels of multi strike (even with just T1 raid gear of the expansion), a possible fix to this would be to let cobra shot multi shots also restore focus

SV is also HEAVILY reliant on BA for damage (for LnL) and for smaller content and pvp it needs some for of 'fall off' and dispel protection

possibly if the target dies while it is on them or if BA is dispelled the CD is reset (but focus is still lost)

it also needs some form of DPS CD

possibly something like this?

TNT- instantly gain 3 stacks of LnL, up to the max of 5, giving it some on demand LnL procs, which could also elevate some of its BA reliance

this thread is for discussing these issues, how we could fix them, and of course other issues, like talent problems, mechanical flaws (like the fact that ice and freezing trap still share CDs, yet glyph of snake trap removes the shared CD, making this glyph a basic must for kiting, it would be better to just remove the CDs and let this be a minor glyph for flavor, because otherwise its a necessity for kite purposes when you still want to use freezing trap to CC)

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now for some of my more personal gripes about the class

lone wolf invalidates a multitude of talents

blink strike, spirit bond, and intimidation

so they need 'lone wolf' versions

add onto all of the talents

this effect changes when a pet is not active

intimidation, honestly should be fully replaced as binding shot does its job better, with less CD, i would nominate scatter shot to go here, but if intimidation is to be kept, let scatter shot be the 'lone wolf' replacement

scatter shot would have 4 second duration, with a 20ish second CD (it would be stronger, by shorter CD, because it is a talent now not a base ability)

or, they could use this talent spot to give a talent to separate the CD of freezing and ice trap (though i would prefer this to be baseline)

next is spirit bond

with lone wolf it should cause disengage to give 1.5 seconds of deterrence on use, allowing smart play with it to reduce damage significantly, and giving an option to final have a functional disengage since the charge jump fix back in cata which broke it

lastly is blind strikes

i would recommend that with lone wolf it turns into 'precision' increasing the damage of your Auto Attacks by 10%

and lastly, masters call should be useable without a pet when you choose lone wolf (this is for pvp)

now for my last issue (for now, lets hear other peoples opinions as well)

Focusing shot is crap, not because it requires stationary dps, but because it removed hunters ability to be mobile dps

So I have an alternative idea that will have the same stationary dps boost effect ( with number tuning) without destroying hunter mobile dps

This is a post I pasted on the previous forum

I don't like focusing shot, sure it improves stationary dps, but it destroys a hunters mobile dps

Here is an alternative talent idea, that provides the same function

Steady aim

When you finish casting steady or cobra shot you gain a stack of steady aim, increasing passive focus regen by 100%, stacking up to 4 times, all stacks are lost when the hunter moves (500%total, changing the base if 4/sec to 20/sec (0 haste), has a ramp up time any movement removes all stacks)

This provides the same effect as focusing shot for stationary dps without destroying hunters ability to dps on the move

Thoughts?

Celestalon

Game Designer

#60 - Aug. 25, 2014, 8:37 p.m.

Hey all. Please focus on continuing to give good feedback, not the style/amount of our responses to said feedback. We're just extremely busy, not ignoring or spiteing you.

Now then... Yes, the Marksmanship and Survival rotations are simpler than they were before. The goal is to have a simpler baseline rotation, and have meaningful choices that allow you to layer more depth onto that in talents, if you choose.

Hunters have a ton of talents which grant rotational or short CD abilities, to support this design. However, they were lacking in rotational depth. The gameplay of most of them boiled down to "use on cooldown". No need to think about preparing for when you're going to use it, or how it interacts with your rotation, etc. So, we're going to make some tweaks to try to add some rotational depth to several of the talent choices.

Barrage is being changed to make it more rotational, with Focus-pooling gameplay required to min/max its benefit. You'll want to pool 60 Focus in anticipation of it coming off cooldown.
Barrage now has a 20sec CD (down from 30sec), costs 60 Focus (up from 30 Focus), and deals 100% additional damage.
Murder of Crows had a cooldown-shortening effect that hardly mattered in practice; either the fight would likely be over within 1min if used on a low-healh boss, or you'd likely waste most of the damage of the crows if used on a low-health add. Instead, we're changing that mechanic, so that it's primarily useful on those low-health adds. You'll want to time it well to finish off low health targets, while still being as Focus-efficient as possible.
Murder of Crows has been changed. Its duration, cost, and cooldown have been reduced by 50%. It no longer has a shorter cooldown when used on low health targets. Instead, its cooldown is reset if the target dies.
The gameplay of Fervor and Dire Beast were extremely similar, so we opted to replace Fervor completely. It's rather late in the development process to be doing that, so went with something tried and true: Steady Focus. This iteration of Steady Focus purely increases Focus regeneration, and has a duration short enough to add depth.
Fervor has been replaced with Steady Focus: Using Cobra Shot or Steady Shot twice in a row, or using Focusing Shot, increases your Focus Regeneration by 50% for 10 sec.

We think that these changes will allow Hunters of all types to customize their gameplay to their liking.

Celestalon

Game Designer

#69 - Aug. 25, 2014, 9:14 p.m.

Oh, completely forgot that another relevant change hasn't made it into one of your builds yet. Apologies.

Lock and Load is returning to the previous version of it, and Multistrikes will simply do more damage for Survival instead.

Celestalon

Game Designer

#110 - Aug. 25, 2014, 11:03 p.m.

08/25/2014 02:49 PMPosted by Thanøs
08/25/2014 02:14 PMPosted by Celestalon
Oh, completely forgot that another relevant change hasn't made it into one of your builds yet. Apologies.

Lock and Load is returning to the previous version of it, and Multistrikes will simply do more damage for Survival instead.

To clarify.. is it reverting to how it works on Live servers or the version that relies on Black Arrow. I assume the Black Arrow one which I am pretty okay with.

It's changing to... 20% chance on Black Arrow tick (not multistrikes, and guaranteed to get at least 1 proc per Black Arrow cast). Effect is to reset ExS's cooldown, and cause the next two ExSs to cost no focus and trigger no cooldown.

Celestalon

Game Designer

#116 - Aug. 25, 2014, 11:24 p.m.

Lots of responses like this so far:

08/25/2014 02:46 PMPosted by Baneling
These changes are great. However, they still don't address anything about MM's core issues.

We don't view specs by their baseline untalented rotations, because their baseline untalented rotations never matter. What matters is the complete package. The complete package includes some baseline abilities, some talent on rows where all affect your rotation, and some optional rotation-affecting talents to complicate things further. It makes it very customizable. Most of you are quite experienced and will enjoy significant added rotational complexity, which is available to you.

Celestalon

Game Designer

#117 - Aug. 25, 2014, 11:24 p.m.

08/25/2014 04:20 PMPosted by Stell
Oh one more VERY important thing: Will the LnL effect have a 10 second internal cooldown as it does on live? Would be fantastic if it didn't.

No.

Celestalon

Game Designer

#135 - Aug. 25, 2014, 11:45 p.m.

08/25/2014 04:27 PMPosted by Neoflame
Regardless, MM only has 2 spec passives while SV has 5 and BM has 6. What is going to be done about this?

"Count of passives" is absolutely not something we balance. That'd be absurd.

Celestalon

Game Designer

#139 - Aug. 25, 2014, 11:49 p.m.

08/25/2014 04:39 PMPosted by Nouway
08/25/2014 04:24 PMPosted by Celestalon
We don't view specs by their baseline untalented rotations, because their baseline untalented rotations never matter. What matters is the complete package. The complete package includes some baseline abilities, some talent on rows where all affect your rotation, and some optional rotation-affecting talents to complicate things further. It makes it very customizable. Most of you are quite experienced and will enjoy significant added rotational complexity, which is available to you.

This is concerning. It means that "cookie cutter" talent builds are coming back, correct? Despite the possibility to choose, it seems that we'll be stuck at a "superior" talent choice (e.g. the L45 row for warriors)

No, that is not implied in what I said.