Warlock PVP: What I don't want

#0 - Dec. 22, 2008, 4:58 p.m.

There have been a lot of threads dedicated to warlocks and pvp mostly listing what warlocks think could improve their chances in pvp. Well, this is a thread about what I don't want. Agree or disagree - and share your own opinions.

(1) I don't want my defense to be tied to a talent. Making warlocks dependent on a particular talent for pvp will ensure that everyone takes the same cookie-cutter spec to survive. There is nothing fun about that. It also means that should we get attacked while not spec'd for that talent we have no chance.

(2) I don't want my defense to be tied to a pet. Pets should add flavor to our pvp style. We should not need a particular pet out to survive in pvp. When I'm spec'd chaos bolt I probably have a lot of talents invested in my imp. I don't want to need my succubus out to survive thereby wasting 6 to 8 talents points. I also really don't want a situation where the felhunter is good against casters, the voidwalker is good against melee, and the succubus is good against hybrids or whatever. Once a warlock pulls out a pet for a bg or arena, he/she really has no chance to get out another one (even with fel dom). I don't want to fight a melee with a VW and then turn around and be totally screwed against the mage heading my way because I don't have a felhunter out.

(3) I don't want soul link anymore. Soul link is a band-aid talent which is both a boon and a bane. Look, I'm glad we have something that helps a little (though not a lot). But, there are a few problems with soul link, though, that really needs to be addressed. The first is that every pvp build will assume the warlock has soul link and then build around it. Thus, a warlock can't survive w/o it. This, then, becomes a mandatory talent. Something I wanted to avoid (as stated in section 1). Second, it makes us too dependent on a pet to survive. If our pet dies, and if we're balanced on having soul link, then we're immediately undertuned as soon as it dies. And it will die. A pet with 8,500 health will be insta-gibbed by melee if they see it as a key to beating us. So get rid of soul link. It's been a decent band-aid but it's time to realize warlocks need more than a talent that makes us dependent on our pet.

(4) Don't make demonology the pvp tree. I realize this has long been the preferred method of fixing locks, but some of us like dots and some of us like chaos bolt. Don't make us give up our preferred playstyle to have a chance in pvp.

(5) Don't make us a one-trick pony. SL/SL was OP when paired with a druid. But we were basically a one-trick pony. That's not fun.

(6) Don't make our defense something that another class can trinket out of. This relates mostly to fear. When fear is trinketed out of, it's worthless for us. When it isn't, the one on the receiving end feels it's op. It also means that whether or not we live or die depends on whether or our opponent has his/her trinket up. I want something that affects me and gives me a defense - not another cc that is too easily countered.

TLDR Version: Our defense needs to be baseline (not a talent), not dependent upon a particular pet, and something that our opponent can't trinket out of.

Update: I knew I forgot something when I originally posted.

(7) Don't bother buffing Demon Armor. I still won't take it. PVP is about burst and I'm not about to give up all that spellpower for an extra 2000 armor that won't make a bit of difference.

Ghostcrawler

#18 - Dec. 22, 2008, 6:31 p.m.

Thanks for the feedback. Good stuff.

In an ideal world, we don't want Demonology (or any spec for any class) to be THE PvP tree. This is tougher with the pure dps classes because any spec that sacrifices all for dps feels like a PvE spec and any spec that has survivability, crowd control or escape tools feels like a PvP spec. Long term though it is definitely a goal.

Ghostcrawler

#59 - Dec. 22, 2008, 10:41 p.m.

Q u o t e:
Honestly GC with the changes you have made to destruction I think all 3 trees could effectively serve as a PVP tree so long as the fixes that you give for warlock survivability are core abilities and not talents. You have really done wonders towards making destruction viable for PVP and for that I thank you. Please keep in mind when developing the warlock fixes that making them talents will only take away from what you have already done :D

I agree with that. Destruction is in a better place (compared to how it used to be vs. Demonology).

Q u o t e:
Does Blizzard plan to make a pet choice more varying in arena? Right now you always see one type of pet, but do you plan to make each have a specific goal?

That is the goal. I think we've done better at Affliction wanting the felhunter, Destruction wanting the imp and Demonology wanting the felguard, at least in PvE. We would like to get the succubus and voidwalker into Arenas more. We have some ideas....

On fear....

We still like the change to how fear works overall. Because it can be broken it's less of a long-term CC, but it's also more consistent in the short-term.

However, I think a lot of the consternation about warlock PvP comes from losing fear as an amazing source of CC (probably replaced by stuns now which probably isn't a good thing), coupled with losing some of the "tankiness" locks had before, but without giving you all of the get out of jail cards that a mage has.

Ultimately I think we actually do want locks to survive through mitigation (when compared to survival through CC or escape mechanisms). The trick is nailing this compromise between plate-wearers who stand and take it and glass cannons who run away. There is probably something to the fact that locks and hunters both feel like they can't stand and fight and can't get away from melee. It's the mail-wearer paradox. I know you don't wear mail per se, but we're pushing you closer to that than we are the slippery mage.