25 Man Instance Latency - Info Thread

First, I'm very sorry to hear that this issue is persisting, and I deeply apologize to those guilds that are experiencing some hurdles raiding due to these conditions.

Just for clarity's sake, lag and latency are the same thing for the purposes of this discussion.

It appears that another round of investigation is under way, and we'll ensure that this continues to receive attention. In the meantime, we'll continue to use this thread to track this issue and I'll provide what updates I receive here.

In the meantime, if you can continue to provide the following information, on a per guild basis, then it should prove useful in tracking the results of any changes:

Realm:
Battlegroup:
Guild:
Instance:
Affected Boss Fights:
Description of Conditions:

If you are unsure of your battlegroup, you can find out by using the entry on this page:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/battlegrounds/battlegroups/index.html

Q u o t e:
Having people list the issues you know are there is pointless and a waste of are time. People on other battle groups are dealing with the same issue.

Sure, we know the issues are there, but please understand that having a nebulous idea of 'issues', and a reference of specific situations that our raiders are experiencing are two very different things.

Just as a quick request to all of you, please feel free to spread this information on your respective realms so that those guilds know where to go to provide information on this issue.

The more specific situations we're aware of, the more likely we might be able to pinpoint issues, and compare information.

Please keep posts on topic, and refrain from extra comments guys. I know you're frustrated, but I want to do all I can to help resolve this. To help maintain the clarity of this thread for others that are referencing it, I will be deleting extraneous posts periodically; please do not take offense.

Q u o t e:


If you could pass along to your boss an idea of laying ground work for renting an instance server to raid on that isn't being taxed to hell by 1500000 people.

I'm unable to forward such suggestions directly, but you can forward this idea via the Suggestions forum.

Q u o t e:
Sticky this time, Malkorix? ;)

Yar, Civ!

Q u o t e:
Can we receive some type of update? I would like to know if we should bother trying to raid tonight. Thank you.

I wish I had some kind of definitive report to provide, but at the moment this issue is still very much under investigation and research for potential resolutions. At the moment, I have no new information to provide though, and I am deeply sorry to our raiding players for any frustration that these conditions may engender =(.

It may be best to plan around the likelihood that conditions of latency will be high for 25 man raiding during peak times on your realm.

Obviously, it isn't an ideal work around by any means, but as I've stated in other threads, for those guilds capable of doing so, it may help to try staggering raid times to off-peak periods.

You guys have been amazing, and I thank you for both remaining as patient as you can, and continuing to provide useful information. Please keep it coming.

Q u o t e:


While I'm sure many of us appreciate the update, myself included, I can't help to feel that this comment is a complete cop out answer. We have absolutely no idea what type of resources that have been applied to fixing this problem, but many will take this statement completely out of context.

How long must we plan around the liklihood that our server(s) are unable to "perform?" A day? A week? A month? A year?

I apologize if this comes off as rude, but being a working professional, along with many in my guild, we don't have the ability to plan raids around peak times, and quite frankly, it is disappointing that his is your ONLY suggestion.

As for my guild, we did Thaddius at 11:15pm last night and wiped due to enrage with 20-30% health still left. As the guild leader, I made everyone change every graphics setting to minimum, log out, and we pulled at roughly 11:30pm. We killed him with about 10s left on enrage. Still not optimal, but down nonetheless. When we tried him at 8pm, he wasnt even half health 4:30 into the fight. So yes, there are SOME things that people can try...

It's frustrating to log into these forums, anxiously anticipating some word of potential improvement and seeing a blue post with "sorry, cant figure it out, try raiding offpeak!", see? Out of context, right?

I can definitely understand your feelings on the subject Bertrude, but I'm merely attempting to provide what useful information I can to help our players raid as successfully as possible while this issue persists. It saddens me that you think of it as a 'cop out', especially when further information simply isn't available at the moment.

I'm also aware that many guilds aren't in a position to heed that advice, and that it might not even be effective in some cases. When I have an ETA available regarding when conditions are likely to improve, you can be certain that I'll provide it.

Until then, I can absolutely assure you that this situation is a top priority and is receiving substantial attention.

I know that raid time is approaching or has already arrived for many guilds. I also know that I've already requested a good deal of information, but if you're willing I can use your help again.

As you guys enter instances to raid, can you give me a quick heads up?

A simple post including the following should be sufficient after you enter the instance to start your raid for the night:

Realm:
Raid Leader Name:
Instance Name:

It isn't necessary for everyone to post - I'm looking for a few solid examples of the conditions that you're experiencing for observational purposes.

Q u o t e:
Realm: Illidan
Raid Leader Name: Lunchmoneyy
Instance Name: Naxx 25

We'll be restarting our raid at 8:30 CST, we'll be attempting thaddius

Thanks Tiare, I'll be keeping an eye out.

Thank you guys, this should be enough for me to keep an eye on for now.

I appreciate your cooperation, and your endurance during a rough patch.

Q u o t e:
Realm: Shattered Hand
Battlegroup: Ruin
Guild: Raiding Robots
Instance: Naxx 25
Affected Boss Fights: All

The lag is back for a second straight night. We went in a little bit early and there was ZERO lag. When everybody and their brother entered it went way up.

Unfortunately, it has been more than two nights.

On the up side, we are actively tracking and investigating this issue. While resolutions for this kind of situation can take longer than anyone wants, this issue is receiving active attention even as we speak.

Q u o t e:
FIX IT!

Same story written 100times here

Bosses Lag, non-combat doesn't, happens to every single 25man raid member in the instance. Happens on large trash pulls, can muddle through some bosses, others are impossible. Unacceptable!

''Fixing it' would be the entire point of this thread ;). We are working to resolve it.

Unfortunately, there are a large number of misconceptions regarding how simple the causes of this issue are =(. One way or another, this is a large issue and any likely resolution will take time.

I only hope that we'll be able to provide better raiding conditions sooner rather than later. Until this matter is resolved, I will continue to monitor raids during the weekdays, and provide updates to you guys when they become available.

Q u o t e:
Its the same lag that we had on Illidan since September 29th or so. Since Sunwell... Its when we get in combat the lag is rediculous, then when we get out of combat or 15 people die to an encounter the lag goes away.

Unfortunately, your assumptions are incorrect. These issues can arise from almost entirely different causes, and this is a completely different issue.

Q u o t e:

Too be honest I dont think me posting on this forum is going to fix anything. I dont even think you guys look at this and care, cause if you did care then it would be fixed. So people looking for updates on this forum daily, they dont give a rats about you and your comments/suggestions.

I'm truly sorry that you feel this way. Perhaps, if conditions on Illidan are as poor as you've suggested, it may be past time to do some research and seek out a different realm to play on =/. Regardless, posting here certainly has a purpose, as it helps us both track which realms and raids are most affected, as well as provides us with object examples to investigate specifically. Even the time I spent personally observing raids last night was invaluable.

In the meantime, we are working hard to resolve this situation for all realms; any other perspective is, frankly, a gross misconception.

Q u o t e:

So basically what you are saying is because you a service provider can't provide an efficeint level of service on said realm. He should pay your company more money to transfer to another realm. Instead of his issue being addressed in a timely manner. Interesting.

Not at all!

In fact, my goal in all of this is attempting to help improve conditions on all realms. There's been some hyperbole in this thread regarding realm conditions though, and I merely wanted to point out that there may be effective alternatives to waiting for a lasting resolution, that's all.

Q u o t e:
2. Isn't it past the time that Blizzard might do something to fix the issue on the Illidan server?

Indeed, and on all realms. That is exactly what we're working toward.

Unfortunately, preventing latency completely isn't always possible. That said, our focus is on providing the best possible experience for all our players, the inhabitants of Illidan included.

I'm hopeful that as we draw to a conclusion regarding this situation, that is precisely what we'll accomplish.

Q u o t e:


Update: We killed Thaddius and Sapphiron with little to no lag, most likely because we start our raid earlier than most of the rest of Bloodscalp. If you can shadow a guild that is doing Thaddius or a similar mob in about an hour or so and see if it lags then, that'd probably be helpful information.

I observed a raid under those conditions last night, and it was certainly enlightening, though it matched my expectations. I (amongst others) will continue to monitor raiding conditions tonight as well.

Once again, I thank those who have borne with this process. I know that it's taking time, and due to the nature of such situations, likely will take some time yet. We will not rest until the latency affecting 25 man raids is reduced.

Q u o t e:


Translation: I guess you should pay blizzard 25 dollars so we can continue not fixing the actual problem. In the mean time, think of it as a server vacation!

Tell my wife I love her.

Please read my other responses in the thread, Snitsky. I remonstrated against exactly this assumption =(.

I will likely just delete posts of a similar nature in the future, as I feel that they detract from the efforts of those who are contributing actively in an effort to help provide information on this issue.

Thank you to those who are posting raid information. I will be peering in again tonight.

Q u o t e:
UPDATE: I am doing 25 man Naxx as we speak, and have found something that has so far helped me out. Mouse over your combat log, right click it, and go to setttings. Turn every filter off so that your combat log records nothing. Try to raid like that and see how it goes. I was DC'd twice so far tonight, but was able to log back in immediately and resume combat. Did not dc at all on saphhiron. My fps is still terrible, but it is playable atm, so Blizz, might want to try this out.

Interesting information, Nickotine. I'll forward that on.

Gratz on the KT kill too. Hope you guys picked up some decent loot =).

Q u o t e:

SOOOOOO Did anyone else actually try this? Didn't see this post till we were done raiding but seeing as the lag is in combat only seems like this could be plausible. If anyone happens to be raiding 25 mans friday night and it's still lagging to <removed> you should try this out.

Yar.

Every little bit helps, and I encourage everyone to give this a shot. The larger boss fights, particularly in Naxxramas, can generate a ton of combat log entries. If this helps in any fashion, then it's worth doing.

In the meantime, the data we've gathered from this thread has proven invaluable. Thank you all for contributing.

Q u o t e:



This did absolutely nothing for me.
First 2 pulls of 4 Horsemen were 10+ seconds of lag, then I turned off all my combat settings. Exact same lag issues, as we pull we see a small amount of lag until 4-5 seconds into it, by the 3rd mark and we need to switch the bosses, it's 10+ seconds, the tanks are calling for taunts and the dps is still seeing the tank in the corner. Completely unplayable. We did this 5 times, exact same thing happened every time. We can kill Instructor Razuvious with little to no lag the entire time.

Thanks for the information, though I'm sorry that this wasn't helpful to you.

It certainly seems as though some fights are far more heavily impacted by these conditions than others, but that is being taken into account as this issue is analyzed.

Q u o t e:
Hello, it is tuesday again. Is blizzard ready to follow some 25 man raids again?

Indeed I am, Ssky!

Q u o t e:


Are you ready to follow the 10 mans as well that is having the same issue?

The current focus of this investigation is on 25 man raids, as that is where the lion's share of the issues seem to be occurring. Any latency in 10 man instances is likely related to a different (though potentially related) issue. Regardless, such conditions are by comparison sporadically reported and are not as widespread as those reported in Heroic raid instances.

To my regret, we can likely expect similar conditions tonight. I would like to point out something important though:

I do not wish to decry those that are reporting difficult conditions - after all, I've seen them first hand and in many different raids. At this point though, it is best to shy away from the word 'unplayable' as it does not help us analyze this situation. I know things can be difficult and it may feel that way, but precision is important. While I will not dispute that some raids are obviously more heavily affected than others (and conditions have indeed approached 'unplayable' for some raids), I have also repeatedly personally observed raids successfully complete even the more heavily affected fights. It is important to report conditions accurately, and to try to control any, even justifiable, bitterness that might be engendered by these raiding conditions.

I am concerned that there will be a reaction to my prior statement which leads some readers to assume that because it is still possible to complete these encounters for some raids, that this somehow diminishes the intensity of the effort we've been putting forth toward resolving this matter. I would like to lay any such misconceptions to rest immediately. The conditions I've observed are unacceptable to us, and we will continue to devote substantial resources to this matter until we are able to resolve it.

I know that this has been extremely frustrating; please accept my personal apologies for any lost raid time or additional difficulty that this latency might be presenting for these encounters.

Q u o t e:
I appreciate your response, however, when Malygos evades and heals to full when you're in a vortex phase, the encounter is unplayable.

Indeed:

"(and conditions have indeed approached 'unplayable' for some raids)"

Also, we are aware of an issue with the Nexus Lords in the Heroic Malygos encounter evading in some conditions, however, I haven't personally seen reports of Malygos himself doing so until now.
Should you encounter this, despite any latency that is occurring, please report it in-game or via the Bug Report forum.

Q u o t e:
Realm: Illidan
Battlegroup: Rampage
Guild: Warpath
Instance: Naxx 25
Affected Boss Fights: All bosses, we started in abom wing and stopped at thaddeous
Description of Conditions: Anywhere from 1-10 seconds of ability lag once boss combat starts.

Noth seemed to go okay, I'll be keeping an eye out.

For Warpath: No, I missed Loatheb - I watched Heigan, then moved on to observing other raids.

Currently observing raids on Mannoroth.

Also to clarify, I should have italicized 'okay'. I didn't mean 'good', I meant 'meh, okay'.

I know these are not good conditions to raid in guys. It makes my heart sink watching these raids, and knowing that this is still under investigation for a long term resolution. For those that were unable to raid, I deeply, deeply apologize. For those that are still slogging through the high latency, I appreciate and applaud your efforts.

Q u o t e:
About to pull loth if u want to watch and have a good laugh.

Yup. Not going to ban Mcinaction either. Poor MC =(.

Edit: Watching Loatheb. Ouch =(.

Q u o t e:
@Malkorix thank you for clarifying your comment, we are just frustrated. Thank you for your continued responses so we know someone is looking into it.

*nod* I understand, and as far as it goes, you're very welcome.

Q u o t e:


Do you mind sending me a tell in game so we can talk about some things. I'd appreciate it.

Unfortunately, I'm unable to =(.

I will stay on top of this for all of you guys though.

I won't be in a position to provide further updates tonight, but I will continue to monitor, and ensure that the appropriate parties are notified as the situation progresses.

Q u o t e:
29 pages of reports of massive lagging, disconnects, and freeze up and still NOTHING has been done other than the occasional CM coming across with "We're sorry, we're working on it." It's simple, and a monkey could put 2 and 2 together to understand what the problem is:

This is a large issue, and to my deep regret, a quick fix is not likely to resolve it. I intimately understand the deep frustrations that current prime time raiding conditions have caused for our raiders on the affected realms - I've been gathering first-hand data on this for some time now =(.

What I do know is that our technicians are devising resolutions - but I don't at the moment have information regarding what they are, nor when they will be fully implemented. I've remained extremely alert for updates and hard information, but I'm unable to pass along something that isn't currently available.

Hardware upgrades, in and of themselves, aren't necessarily going to resolve this and, I'm sure surprisingly to some, may not even help to any substantial degree. Just by way of preparation, even at such time as I'm informed of specific resolutions, due to the sensitivity of the information involved, it is unlikely that I will be in a position to pass along anything specific.

Q u o t e:
The best part of this whole ordeal is tomorrow will roll around the lag will be gone because 90% of the raid community will have killed everything and we will be right back to square one on Tuesday.

My plea to blizzard is that by Tuesday you still havnt found a resolution to this fix to please allow bandage fixes such as free transfers off the servers or limit caps on the instances.

I know this has been going on for some time, Kenji, but please trust that we're aware that this issue has been persistent from week to week.

Noone is saying, "Hey look, there's no latency in weekend raids! Yay, us! Power nap time!". This issue has received ongoing attention from the moment that the investigation was opened on it a couple of weeks ago, and those responsible for the investigation are aware that conditions shift over the weekend.

Unfortunately, due to the deeply affecting and widespread nature of this situation, it will very likely require an in-depth and long term resolution, and that kind of implementation can take very substantial time. How much time exactly, I'm uncertain. I very sincerely hope that this doesn't prove to be the case, but I'm speaking in likelihoods here, and I'd rather not give anyone any false impressions.

As to 'bandage fixes' such as realm transfers and population caps, I suspect it is unlikely that they will be implemented. Both short term and long term, they are most likely to do more harm than good in this case.

Let's keep this thread focused please.

And I recognize the frustration of those that are on affected realms. Your concerns are justified.

Emotions are high, and I would appreciate it if everyone remains respectful of one another and stays on an even keel. Please, refrain completely from flaming one another.

Thank you.

Q u o t e:
4th wipe in a row due to 30 second delay


MAN WHY DO I STILL PLAY THIS GAME


its really funny when vortex happens and it lags so much that we go up when the boss goes down.. and he evades back to 100% till he wipes you.

Well, Malygos is down, at least.

Thanks for alerting me to the fight!

Q u o t e:


No hes not.. after 5 straight wipes to unplayable content we went and did 10 mans because they are not lagging :)

*blink*

Er, I could be mistaken? I watched your fight with the Nexus lords, jumped over to another raid, and when I popped back into the instance, I saw Alex up, exit portal, and no platform.

Apologies for any misunderstanding if your raid wasn't successful =(.

I know it's been awhile since I've updated this issue guys, but I have been tracking it. Apologies for the relative silence.

The information I provided before, while limited, is still true. Over time, more and more will be done to rectify this situation for the long term as the causes appear to be multi-layered. In the meanwhile, raid latency is likely to be high during peak play times on the affected realms =(.

I wish I had more positive news to relate, but that's what I have for you currently. My updates will come farther apart-at least until I get something more substantial to relate-but I am paying attention.

Q u o t e:


Thank you for the update. What you are saying then, is there are realms in your system that are simply dysfunctional. Raiding on servers such as Lightning's Blade, then, either has to be done during off peak hours, or most likely cannot be completed.

I'd like to ask that you let guilds transfer off these servers for free, so they can play the game in the intended manner. Right now, I am not playing the same game as my friends on Kalecgos, or Korgath. That doesn't seem right.

I'm unable to authorize that, but if you think that this should be offered as a stop-gap, please feel free to make the request on our Suggestions forum.

I will say that creating the potential for mass migrations of this nature may cause more issues than it resolves over the long term, and may not even necessarily be helpful in the short-term.

Q u o t e:
Yeah, we're unable to raid Naxx during primetime as well. So much for the queues helping!

The realm queues are actually of substantial interest to me. If you are both experiencing realm queues and raid latency, it would be extremely helpful if you could please make a quick post in the following format.

Realm:
Average Queue Size:

Q u o t e:
This really concerns me. How the hell could you be "closely monitoring" this situation if you have no idea that we have both lag and queues on the realms. This is evidence that this issue really is not getting the attention it deserves. The game is not enjoyable in this state and the fact that the situation is only getting worse is pathetic.

Woah, hang on now.

I never said I wasn't aware of the queues. I am and have been aware of the queues.

I have requested more detailed data on the queue sizes as it is useful to me while I track this, and as I forward information on. I don't personally have direct access to the larger data sets generated at the realm level regarding issues like this, so this gives me a larger perspective on the situation.

It's one thing to be frustrated. I'm frustrated too, far more than you are probably aware, and probably more that you'd believe. So, I get that. I just want to see this resolved, and get you guys raiding smoothly again.

Please do not assume that this issue isn't getting a very substantial amount of attention. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Q u o t e:
Any response regarding our spreadsheet here, Malkorix? It really illustrates things rather well, I think. The issues have not arisen on any server founded after January of 06, as far as we can tell.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=peBqf3iaPRxvbBkyE3ZvqBw

Definitely interesting - I'm genuinely grateful to those that are still taking a constructive and proactive attitude toward helping me get the best information possible on this situation. Remaining calm and constructive is especially impressive given that I'm aware of how intensely frustrating this can be.

I'll make sure that this is forwarded to the appropriate parties so your data can be compared with the internal information.

Good on you for giving credit in this version too ;).

Q u o t e:
You're really the only one who has to weather the storm outside that locked door.

Yep.

I don't mind so much as long as I can help pass your messages through the mail slot so your concerns can be addressed (to continue the analogy). When there's a situation like this, which involves resolutions that can take a long time to implement? It gets... interesting.

All I can do is keep gathering information to forward on in an effort to make sure that nothing falls through the cracks, and try to keep you guys informed whenever I get useful information. Unfortunately, I've been a little short on new information to provide of late and I want to try to avoid repeating myself too much.

As before, it's best to keep this thread focused so it's most useful to those aside from myself that review it though.

Q u o t e:

excuse me sir, but i am not trolling. i have three questions for you pertaining to this issue. i dont think it is appropirate for you to redirect my concern by labeling it as trolling. i have a right to now.

Ah, it would appear as though I owe you an apology. I was remembering an entirely different posting style and posting attitude from the past. As it seems that you are indeed addressing this matter seriously, so shall I.

Q u o t e:
will players be getting a $30 credit?

will players be getting a free realm transfer?

Unfortunately, I'm unable to provide an answer for these questions. It is unlikely that free transfers or credits will be provided, this is especially the case as it is still possible to play, merely sub-optimal. I know that probably not what anyone wants to hear, but that is indeed the likelihood.

Regardless, if you believe this matter merits compensation of any kind, then you may certainly request it via the Suggestions forum.

Q u o t e:
is the issue a hardware issue relating to old equipment?

I'm unable to state the causes, though I can say that attempting to narrow the matter to a single pertinent cause via speculation isn't likely to yield satisfying or accurate results. There are likely multiple issues at work; but I'm unable to provide any details regarding how the realms operate, or what specifically may be at issue. I know that it feels more satisfying to be provided that information, and I apologize that I'm unable to do so.

Q u o t e:
as you well know this is an issue that has been happening for a while, and many players including myself feel that its not recieving the proper attention. for example, there should be a high level executive stating and addressing these problems.

I'm painfully aware of how long this issue has persisted. I understand that you guys are frustrated, and feel that because there's only one Blizzard Representative addressing this thread, that the matter isn't receiving appropriate attention.

Please allow me to reassure you all that this issue is indeed receiving attention at top levels, and this thread is an effective conduit of information. This will very likely take some substantial time to resolve, but we are working to address it from all angles.

Q u o t e:

it comes down to this, at the moment that game is not playable. now, i have contacted my local BBB office. it isnt going to help matters if the customer service representative attack me for asking my rights as it pertains to the issue here. will i recieve a credit? will be giving a free transfer? is this a hardware issue for old equipment?

To make things clear, I issued a warning specifically against trolling due to the posting history and consistently evinced posting attitude of this account on the World of Warcraft forums.

To state that the service is unavailable, or unplayable is factually inaccurate =/. Please keep in mind that at this point I've personally witnessed many dozens (probably more) of affected raids, many of which were able to fully clear the content, and a greater part of which were able to clear the majority of the content.

I've also shared the frustration of those who aren't able to do so - and we are very focused on restoring raiding on every realm to a top level. That will almost certainly take substantial time, and I do not have an ETA available regarding when that will be.

When things are functioning as we want them to be, the content should be smooth and fun to play. As a result, the current state of latency in Raid instances (and potentially Wintergrasp as well), is something that we have an invested and essential interest in resolving.

Q u o t e:

okay, thank you mal.

You're welcome!

Q u o t e:

when you say you are "unable to state the cause" - is that because blizz doesnt know the cause, or because managment has instructed you not to release that information? or is it just that to your knowledge u are unaware of the issue causing the problem? i see that you said "i do not have an ETA". but wat about top level. do they have an ETA ?

We're unable to discuss the operational details of the realms. This seems to be something that generates an amount of consternation when situations like this arise, but we have many reasons for keeping this kind of information confidential. Please accept my genuine apology if this is frustrating at all. If any ETA becomes available, at all, then I'll do my utmost to make it apparent.

Q u o t e:
i assume "top level" is aware of the fact that players want a comment directly from them. have they commented on this? if so is there a thread somewhere where this occurred. if not, wat was there reason for remaining publiclaly silent on the issue?

I am currently the conduit of information regarding the situation, but that may change in the future. At the moment though, any useful information, announcements or updates we are able to provide will be provided in this thread. In either case, it is standard for any available information to be divulged via a representative such as myself.

I've been as up front as I possibly can be with everyone regarding this issue. Please trust that this isn't being ignored. In any case, if specific statements are made, then they'll be made public in whatever format is most appropriate and effective for the nature of that statement.

Q u o t e:
and one last question: given that blizz acknowledges a suboptimal play level, how is it appropriate not to componsate the players? for example, if we recieve a damaged item it is usually discounted. for example a clothing item that is stained for some reason is usually discounted 10%.

We aren't able to guarantee a play experience that is 100% optimal at all times. We certainly strive to provide it, and doing so is always a top priority.

While in the past compensation has been offered for serious issues, they have historically been conditions that completely prohibit play, not as much those that inhibit specific aspects of play.
That doesn't mean that compensation is totally precluded; I'm merely discussing likelihoods based on precedent and our Terms of Use. Either way, I'm unable to forward requests for compensation directly. As I said, if you feel that this matter merits compensation, a constructive thread in our Suggestions forum is the place for those who are in a position to offer it to actually see the request. Please keep in mind that due to the nature of that forum though, a Blizzard Representative will not be able to provide a direct response.

Q u o t e:
Brief side note: Guys, don't take it too personally if various posts/sections of posts get removed from a thread like this. As was pointed out on the first page, Malkorix is trying to use this thread primarily for information gathering. While everyone is frustrated and looking for someplace to vent, ask questions, or possibly even show a positive outlook, it does dilute the data with "dead space." If this comment were editted out for exactly that reason, I would be neither suprised nor offended. That said - keep in mind that development and debugging are rarely as simple as throwing money around and expecting results. If ingenuity were simply a direct function of dollar investment, how long ago should we have cured cancer? The greatest resource an engineer can ask for is specific data; this thread aims to procure exactly that.

I'm not sure that I can adequately express my appreciation for your understanding, so I'll simply say thank you.

On that note, let us please continue to keep this thread as focused on the requested information as possible.
I'll attempt to field major concerns and questions as I'm able to, but the main focus of this thread at the moment is ensuring that we continue to be able to read this situation clearly on an ongoing basis. It serves this purpose best when it remains focused and concise.

Q u o t e:
Dear Malkorix,

At this stage, I have one question for you (although there will be some preamble in getting to that question).

That seems to really have encompassed several questions. I'll attempt to address them one by one. It seems that your major concerns are a) how much information I've divulged and the overall flow of information regarding this situation, b) who I've thanked, and c) who I happen to have responded to.

A. I've revealed all that I'm able to reveal. When I have better information available, I'll be more than delighted to share it with all of you. On several occasions I've also explained that there is much I'm simply unable to discuss. I've explained that we're working to correct the issue, and that it is likely to take a substantial period of time. But, as I have not been provided any ETA regarding when the issue is likely to be resolved, in turn, I'm unable to relay one here. I fervently hope that will cease being the case, but at the moment, that is the situation.

B. I've thanked two players that have expressed an understanding of the situation and made points that I felt others can benefit from in understanding the situation. I can understand why those might stand out. I've also thanked all those that are contributing useful information and keeping this thread productive on several occasions. I remain genuinely grateful to those who continue to do so. I apologize if you feel that I haven't thanked the appropriate parties. Please feel free to nominate those you feel worthy of gratitude - if I've missed a worthy post, then I am remiss in having done so.

C. Regarding content, I endeavor to respond to the query, not the poster. Please do not misunderstand though - while I like addressing individual concerns, it functionally does not matter who I am responding to. When I provide a response, I'm providing a response to the entire audience.

You seem as prepared to dismiss a poster as I was initially based on past behavior, but honestly I made an error in doing so. The concerns expressed in that post mirrored those that I'd seen expressed in a few other posts, and in a remarkably concise way. It seemed an opportune time to 'take a page' to issue a response I felt many readers could take something from during a period of time when the thread was moving more slowly and posters weren't actively contributing raid and queue information.

I recognize that you may simply have concerns about my moderation style. Ultimately, if anyone would like to comment regarding how I've handled this thread, please feel free to submit an email to [email protected] and my superiors can review your comments there. Please note that this is not an effective venue to issue entreaties for a faster resolution to this issue - it is only a means to deliver your comments regarding my performance.

Hey guys!

I just wanted to drop into the thread and let you all know that the information you're providing has been very useful to the Techs and Developers that are currently investigating and devising resolutions for this situation.

I don't doubt that you're hoping for a more substantive update, but as yet I still do not have a specific time frame for when we'll be able to get things running as smoothly as we'd like. I can say that both hardware and software resolutions are being devised, and though these things take time to implement, we do have several different tacks to take with regard to this situation. Your patience and dedication in posting in this thread have gone a long way toward providing the keys to identifying those paths.

So, thank you all. Your posts are helping every member of the raiding community that is experiencing this issue.

Hey guys,

While this offering does not pertain to the issue you've been experiencing directly, I felt that those on the listed realms may find the following thread interesting. If your realm is not on the list, but you'd like to see Free Realm Transfers offered, then the Suggestions forum would be the appropriate place to make the request; I'm unable to forward such requests from this forum.
Also, please keep in mind that I still do not have an ETA regarding when the current conditions are likely to improve, in the event that might influence your decision:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14133099279&sid=1

Q u o t e:
This thread will contain information on the free character moves we currently have available to assist in population dispersal. In the event that these realms meet our transfer goals before the scheduled end date, the transfers to that realm will be disabled. We highly recommend that if you are planning to transfer that you do so at your earliest convenience. No characters will be eligible for these free moves once the transfers have been closed.

You can begin your transfer by visiting the Character Move page located here: https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/account/character-move.html

These transfers are scheduled to close on Wednesday, January 14, at 12:00 pm PST (January 15, 7:00 am AEDT) provided our transfer goal is not reached prior to this time.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source A (PvP)
Thaurissan (Horde transfers only)
Frostmourne
Barthilas
Jubei'Thos


Destination A (PvP)
Gundrak (Oceanic)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source B (PvP)
Kel'Thuzad
Skullcrusher
Arthas
Warsong
Burning Blade
Mannoroth
Bleeding Hollow
Magtheridon
Shattered Hand
Lightning's Blade

Destination B (PvP)
Tortheldrin (Eastern)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source C (PVP)
Illidan
Emerald Dream
Sargeras
Dragonmaw
Stormreaver
Mal'Ganis (Horde transfers only)
Laughing Skull
Bonechewer
Burning Legion
Tichondrius
Destromath


Destination C (PvP)
Drak'Tharon (Central)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We are looking to provide free realm transfers from our highest-populated PVE realms as well and will provide additional information as soon as it is available.

If you're interested in availing yourselves of this service, please plan accordingly with cut-off dates in mind. Any additional details would be provided in that thread, so it's probably best to watch for updates there. Before initiating any transfer, it's best to review our FAQ on the subject:

http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?articleId=20530

Finally, it's best to expect that though it's possible that it may help alleviate conditions, transferring to a different realm is not guaranteed to ameliorate the conditions you've experienced.

Update:

PvE realms have been added to the Free Character Move list. Here's the relevant post:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14274447365

Q u o t e:
We will be offering free character moves from selected high population realms to a brand new PvE realm, Garrosh, to assist in population dispersal. The ability to move a character from the selected source realms is scheduled to run until Wednesday, January 14, 6:00 pm PST. Garrosh is an eastern timezone realm on the Emberstorm battlegroup.

In the event that these realms meet our transfer goals before the scheduled end date, the transfers to that realm will be disabled. We highly recommend that if you are planning to transfer that you do so at your earliest convenience. No characters will be eligible for these free moves once the transfers have been closed.

You can begin your transfer by visiting the Character Move page located here: https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/account/character-move.html

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source (PvE/RP)
Aggramar (Alliance Transfers Only)
Alleria (Alliance Transfers Only)
Argent Dawn
Azjol-Nerub
Blackhand
Bloodhoof
Cenarius
Dalaran
Doomhammer
Draenor
Dragonblight
Earthen Ring
Hellscream
Icecrown
Lightbringer (Alliance Transfers Only)
Medivh
Silvermoon
Whisperwind
Zul'jin


Destination (PvE)
Garrosh (Eastern)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q u o t e:
So a good amount of the kiddies are gone back to school,and the holiday rush should be over,so when is Blizz going to do the math on how many people play during peak and off hours regarding this issue? or was MAY the real answer to when Blizz thinks the player base that will stop playing actually stops,before they start to do anything (number of players on at any given time) into the "fix"?

It's probably best to avoid making assumptions, as they can generate an illusory negative impression that doesn't reflect the truth of the matter =(.

Things are proceeding as I've stated in that we're aware of the issue and pursuing multiple paths toward resolution. While it would be foolish not to take higher holiday concurrency into account, you can trust that we aren't simply waiting for the holidays to end and hoping that will alleviate the problem.

Already a large amount of hard work has been invested over the holidays, and more work is to be invested before we see a long-term resolution for these conditions.

Update:

PvE realms have been added to the Free Character Move list. Here's the relevant post:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14274447365

Q u o t e:
We will be offering free character moves from selected high population realms to a brand new PvE realm, Garrosh, to assist in population dispersal. The ability to move a character from the selected source realms is scheduled to run until Wednesday, January 14, 6:00 pm PST. Garrosh is an eastern timezone realm on the Emberstorm battlegroup.

In the event that these realms meet our transfer goals before the scheduled end date, the transfers to that realm will be disabled. We highly recommend that if you are planning to transfer that you do so at your earliest convenience. No characters will be eligible for these free moves once the transfers have been closed.

You can begin your transfer by visiting the Character Move page located here: https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/account/character-move.html

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source (PvE/RP)
Aggramar (Alliance Transfers Only)
Alleria (Alliance Transfers Only)
Argent Dawn
Azjol-Nerub
Blackhand
Bloodhoof
Cenarius
Dalaran
Doomhammer
Draenor
Dragonblight
Earthen Ring
Hellscream
Icecrown
Lightbringer (Alliance Transfers Only)
Medivh
Silvermoon
Whisperwind
Zul'jin


Destination (PvE)
Garrosh (Eastern)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For a list of free transfers from PvP realms, please refer to the following thread: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14133099279&sid=1

Q u o t e:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14287258583&sid=1

YAY!

YAY indeed =). We're taking our first steps toward resolving this issue. Here's a link, and a quote of the text in question for your convenience. Please note the bit about Naxxramas toward the bottom of Eyonix's statement:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14287258583&sid=1

Q u o t e:
For the last several weeks, our players have been experiencing periodic latency in both outdoor Northrend areas and Naxxramas, and we wanted to provide you with several updates on what we're doing to resolve these issues. As many players have discovered, the outdoor Northrend latency has been tied to activity in Wintergrasp. We are actively working on a server-side fix that should address the high latency experienced in the outdoor world when Wintergrasp is active. This fix is currently in testing on internal test realms and we anticipate that we'll be able to push it to live realms in the near future. Concerning Naxxramas, optimizations are being made that will address both the latency and disconnection issues affecting players while in that zone. These optimizations will be included with the next minor content patch.

We appreciate your patience as we work to address these issues.

Q u o t e:
Mal - can you tell us if the 'next minor content patch' referred to in this post:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14287258583&sid=1

Is 3.0.8 - in other words the next patch we receive, or is this referring to some future patch beyond 3.0.8.

Would be pretty helpful information for people on these realms who need to decide about transferring while the free transfers are available.

Thanks

To my knowledge, 3.0.8 is indeed the next planned 'minor content patch', that this resolution is intended to be bundled with. I don't have a specific ETA regarding when 3.0.8 will be released though.

With all of this in mind, I believe we've gathered sufficient information. You guys no longer need to post raid information, and we can see how far this resolution will go in reducing not only Naxxramas and Wintergrasp latency, but conditions for Malygos and Sartharion as well.

I know it's hard to be patient when a potential resolution is looming, but I hope that this will clear these conditions up for you guys, and that you can hold on a little longer.

It's a good idea to keep an eye on this thread, as well as Eyonix's thread in General, since if we get any additional information or clarifications, they'll be provided as soon as they're available. If a request comes down for more information, I'll let you guys know here as well.

Q u o t e:
Thanks for putting up with all the rage Malkorix. We appreciate your help and professionalism in all of this.

It's the least I could do, and really, I completely understand anyone that happened to vent some frustration once they got into the thread. I honestly just want to see you guys happily raiding in relatively smooth conditions again.

I'm rather hopeful that the planned resolutions have the desired effect!

Still, I'll be keeping an eye on this thread in the meantime, so if there are any questions, I'll do my best to answer them.

On that note, and for anyone else that may have questions:

Just to forestall any queries regarding the specifics of what is being changed in an effort to resolve this situation, all the currently available information available regarding planned resolutions was contained in Eyonix's post. Any further details, if provided, would probably originate there.

Q u o t e:

What I took from the other blue post was that they have taken measures to fix the general issue (Naxx being somewhat laggy, WG lagging the server, etc), but my concern is that this does not necessarily address the issues that were brought to light here.

Or maybe I'm completely mistaken and our issues are all the same, we just experienced it a month before the majority of servers?

It's difficult to predict how thoroughly we'll see conditions change at this stage.

Think of this as the first major step in resolving the matter now that potential causes have been identified and researched. Whether this will actually resolve the conditions raiders on Bonechewer and other affected realms have been experiencing is yet to be seen, but it's fairly clear that these issues were major contributing factors.

Obviously, it is our hope that these alterations will return raiding conditions to normal, and while I do expect to see improvement, it's probably best to be mentally prepared for the idea that more work may be necessary after the fact. When I stated some time ago that issues like this require long term resolutions and can take considerable time to be implemented, I was trying to be as up front and honest as I can be.

We will continue to work as swiftly as possible; but 'swift' is a relative term in a case like this.

NOTE:
While I appreciate your efforts, it is no longer necessary to report raid conditions currently.

If, after 3.0.8, conditions fail to improve, I will likely create a new thread or continue this thread and compile information on realms that are still experiencing poor raiding conditions then.

Q u o t e:


When is 3.0.8 due?

We don't have an ETA as of yet, unfortunately. I really am sorry for any wait though.

Q u o t e:
While "optimizations" (code for lazy, bloated game code) may help to some degree the bottom line is that the oldest servers will still crack under the weight of running Wrath.

He knows all our secret codes =0.

Q u o t e:
The spreadsheet provides the proof, in that everything but the age of the servers is basically equal, and older servers have the most latency issues. Optimize the code all you want and there still will be a significant difference in performance and reliability (which costs blizzard a lot in refunds and overtime maintenance).

The spreadsheet, while tremendously useful, merely suggests - but does not actually prove - anything in and of itself. It's best to avoid jumping to conclusions regarding what is, or is not, a fact based on highly circumstantial evidence. A complete analysis shouldn't rest on a single factor.

You'll note that the oldest realms are not the only ones affected, and it just may be possible the affected realms may have other things in common with each other completely aside from the time they were introduced, is it not?

Q u o t e:

Would it be safe to guess Blizz has reached the point that it would be cheaper to have users quit than pay to increse the ammount of bandwith they are buying from select datacenters. I honestly just hope either Blizz gives in and Spends money were it needs to be spent, or a nice clean 2 million or so scripts cancel and the lag goes away.

Not at all. In fact, I've on more than one occasion provided information to the effect that issues of this nature can take substantial time to resolve--even after the causes are known.

Q u o t e:
In the end i just find it terribly difficult to believe that in the 50+ days of this issue being known, talked about, researched , that blizz has not a clue as to the cause. And if honestly after 50+ days it hasnt been figured out... what is the point of this thread, mid aswell lock it and just say "Well <removed> guys, we dont know what to do, so hopefuly it just fixes itself."

Well, that would be because we do have some ideas about potential causes, which are many faceted. There seems to be a misapprehension that this is stemming from a single cause, and that it can be easily resolved with the flip of a switch.

Unfortunately, it just does not work that way. If you've read my response, then you know that a potential resolution is being worked up for 3.0.8. It's possible that more work may be needed, but the first steps are being taken.

I've been as genuine and up front as possible, and it may be best to read through my response prior to making posts of this nature. You can do so by clicking the blue 'Blizz' icon on the upper right of my posts, to advance to the next 'blue' post in the thread.

In fact, there are those saying this thread is 'pointless'. Well, currently, it exists for me to maintain contact with you guys a central location - and dispel some of the unfortunate misconceptions that seem to be arising.

I've already stated twice that raid information is not longer necessary here since we've gathered sufficient information to investigate (Thanks again to all who contributed!). After 3.0.8 comes in, I'll likely open a new thread so we can track the changes that arise from the patch to see if the current conditions persist, and if so, which realms are still affected.

Q u o t e:
I appreciate your response. What is your advice on keeping my raiding guild interested? Im not saying that to be rude or as some sort of remark to bait you into a statement. Its just that is what my guild has been centered around for the past 2 years and attendance is starting to drop. People have begun to drift away, and Im concerned that by the time a fix comes around, there will be nobody left for which a fix would benefit.

I'm not really in a position to offer advice regarding flagging raid interest, unfortunately. Each guild is run differently, and different things motivate different people. Perhaps you can get some advice on keeping members motivated during rough patches from other raid and guild leaders on our Guild Relations forum.

It might be useful to remind your raiders that 3.0.8 should be arriving relatively soon carrying potential resolutions with it, and to try to keep their chins up in the meantime.