Feedback: Rogues

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Community Manager
#1 - July 14, 2022, 6:34 p.m.
Blizzard Post

Please use this thread to post feedback on the Rogue class, once you’ve tested it in the Dragonflight Alpha.

Thank you!

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WoW Developer
#150 - Sept. 16, 2022, 12:24 a.m.
Blizzard Post

Hello, Rogues.

Your feedback, here and elsewhere, has not fallen on deaf ears. In hindsight, stopping by the forums sooner to say as much would probably have helped, and I hope you are willing to accept a peace offering (in the form of a previewed upcoming change to the talent that was previously Shadow Mist):


Iteration and implementation for Rogue talents continues in earnest. A handful of iterative changes and significantly more functional talents will be hitting the PTR and Beta across the next couple builds, many of which are related to topics previously discussed here, and we will be back tomorrow to chat with you about more of what’s coming.


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WoW Developer
#172 - Sept. 16, 2022, 9:46 p.m.
Blizzard Post

Hello Rogues,

Let’s talk talents, specifically the class tree:

There are a few notable changes here, with talent position changes being more clear, and some less clear from the picture alone, which we’ll point out.

We’ve heard significant discussion around this talent, the degree to which it isn’t very compelling (even situationally), and the ways in which it clashes with other talent on the class tree and spec trees. As a result, it’s been redesigned:


Cheat Death is certainly compelling, and players have pointed out how it puts undue emphasis on the Subtlety-themed side of the tree. The solution we’ve decided on is to move it up the tree to a more accessible spot (previously occupied by Recuperator), but now as a choice against the similarly-powerful Elusiveness. Recuperator has moved to the previous position of Elusiveness, and a reworked version of Soothing Darkness is taking the previous position Cheat Death.

image image

There are few more positional changes.

As it turns out, neither talent is well-suited to being positioned on a main highway. Deeper Stratagem is joining Marked for Death, as a choice node:


Improved Ambush is taking the position Deeper Stratagem was in. Nightstalker and Tight Spender are swapping positions and point costs as a result, with slightly adjusted values to accommodate.

Beyond positional changes, a few talents have had costs changed.

Lethality and Alacrity have become 2-point talents. Lethality remains the same per-point value, and Alacrity has had numbers slightly adjusted to accommodate the change (most notably, granting up to 8% Haste at max stacks).

Sold. Resounding Clarity is now a 1-point talent, and causes Echoing Reprimand to Animacharge 3 additional combo points.

Something that we’re aware of as a potential knock-on effect of this and the other above changes, is Echoing Reprimand becoming more appealing to take in some builds than it was before. For those who don’t mind the one-Animacharge minigame of Echoing Reprimand but don’t want to feel forced into the full four-Animacharge version, we’re considering adding Reverberation (formerly a Conduit) with an appropriate value to go up against Resounding Clarity as a choice node.

Thank you for your feedback so far, and we welcome any continued discussion. Cheers.

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WoW Developer
#210 - Sept. 19, 2022, 10:05 p.m.
Blizzard Post

Hello Rogues,

Last we spoke, we talked about some upcoming changes to the Rogue class tree, and one of the immediate and echoed points of feedback was comparison and concern regarding pathing and connectivity for the class tree as presented and also for current spec trees.

While the Rogue trees are not and will not be exactly like those of any one other class, we’d like to share how your feedback has helped continue to shape the Rogue trees up to current. We’ve added connections we believe help create more flexibility and creative opportunity within the trees, while avoiding undermining the intended costing of deeper tree sections. Please keep in mind that: 1) Changes happen iteratively, which means some of what you see will be present in this week’s PTR and Beta builds, while other changes will not be in a public build until next week, and 2) As always, anything and everything is subject to change - it is Beta, after all.

Okay, with that preamble out of the way, let’s take a look at the current structure of each Rogue tree:

Beyond the pathing changes and connections seen above, there are a few details I’d like to note:

  • Leeching Poison now works with any Lethal poison

  • Deeper Stratagem once again increases finisher damage by 5% in addition to its existing effect

  • Shadow Dance base duration has been reduced to 6 seconds and no longer has a base flat damage increase (Subtlety will be compensated through a mix of baseline changes, talents, and tuning)

  • Thistle Tea grants Mastery (example: 17% as Assassination) for 6 sec, in addition to its current effect

There are many new connections and pathing opportunities in the Assassination tree. While not many individual talents have significantly changed for Assassination, Cut to the Chase is now a 1-point talent and extends Slice and Dice by 3 sec per combo point spent, and Internal Bleeding is also now a 1-point talent for the same total effect.

Outlaw has quite a few connections created in the top and side portions of the tree. As an individual talent change, Heavy Hitter (previously NYI) design has changed, now granting 10% increased damage to all abilities that generate combo points.

Subtlety has seen perhaps the most significant total change to its talent tree structure (as displayed) and its individual talents.

Two active skills have returned to Subtlety’s level-learned baseline: Shadow Dance and Symbols of Death. While a handful of talents have moved, new talents have taken their places: Improved Shadow Dance increases the duration of Shadow Dance by [2 sec/4 sec], and Swift Death reduces the cooldown of Symbols of Death by 5 sec.

One passive skill has also returned to Subtlety’s level-learned baseline: Shadow Techniques. At base, Shadow Techniques now grants 1 Combo Point and 4 Energy when it triggers, and Improved Shadow Techniques has taken its place on the tree talent tree, increasing the Energy generated by 4.

Alongside the previous post’s Danse Macabre, we hope the total changes to the Subtlety tree (and other Rogue trees) will provide more flexible talent options, meaningful choices, and fun gameplay opportunities.

Thank you for your continued feedback. We look forward to hearing about more of your experiences on the PTR and Beta, especially across the next two week’s builds as more and more Rogue talents get fully implemented. Cheers.