Ghostcrawler - Ret Paladin Wings Discussion

#0 - Nov. 17, 2008, 8:37 p.m.

Can we have one? I can pretty much confidently say that there is no spec of the paladin class that is happy with the current state of avenging wrath. I am specifically referring to it causing Forbearance for 2 min.

-Prot isn't comfortable using it because it means they are hanging their healers out to dry for 2 min instead of saving the forbearance for an emergency Divine Protection.

-Holy doesn't like it because they lose their bubble if they feel like doing a little DPS (grinding / whatever...) or the extra healing boost they get in a bind.

-Retribution doesn't like it because we almost can't touch it anymore. In PvP you might as well change the wings to a Big Bullseye for 2 min. In PvE its almost better to save your bubble in case you need it...

Now the main reason that the change was made (as far as I can tell) is to prevent retribution paladins from going on a bubblewings killing spree for 12 seconds...(I have other thoughts about this being a non-viable PvP strat, but for the sake of saving this thread from an apocalypse of flames and QQ I'll save it). Before launch there was some talk of putting Divine Shield and Avenging Wrath on the same 30 sec CD and getting rid of the Forbearance on Avenging Wrath. Now I'm not going to be one of those posters who is all like "ZOMG YOU PROMISED!!! GIMME!" However, I will say that I haven't heard one complaint about this solution, and it seems to me to be the fix of all fixes (ie...everyone is happy).

I guess the main thing I am a little frustrated about is that it seems like hotfix nerfs get implemented quickly and hotFIXES get turned into weeks...months....years. I can completely understand that you guys have had your hands full with the launch and everything and that's cool with me. I can't even begin to imagine everything needed to pull that off. It just seems to me like everything is running smoothly...minus a few quest bugs and some server queues (ouch), and I don't want this to fall off the radar when it seems to be a great fix for everyone.

TLDR---> Avenging Wrath suggestion to put it on a shared 30 sec CD with Divine Shield was a great one and would make everyone happy and prevent the bubblewings crap...lets do it!

EDIT* sp / grammar

Ghostcrawler

#10 - Nov. 17, 2008, 10:36 p.m.

Q u o t e:
I guess the main thing I am a little frustrated about is that it seems like hotfix nerfs get implemented quickly and hotFIXES get turned into weeks...months....years. I can completely understand that you guys have had your hands full with the launch and everything and that's cool with me. I can't even begin to imagine everything needed to pull that off. It just seems to me like everything is running smoothly...minus a few quest bugs and some server queues (ouch), and I don't want this to fall off the radar when it seems to be a great fix for everyone.

TLDR---> Avenging Wrath suggestion to put it on a shared 30 sec CD with Divine Shield was a great one and would make everyone happy and prevent the bubblewings crap...lets do it!

That last part is still the plan.

There are limitations to what we can hotfix. Those are essentially server-side changes. Changes to your client require an actual patch. Patches, sadly, are much more difficult to do. That doesn't mean it isn't important to us. It just means we have to test patches very thoroughly. Breaking everyone's WoW is almost always a lot worse than whatever bug or issue we were trying to fix.

We will patch this before the first major content patch (Ulduar AKA 3.1).

Ghostcrawler

#15 - Nov. 17, 2008, 11:41 p.m.

Q u o t e:
Wouldn't it be better to delay hotfixing something when the effects of the hotfix are sever enough that they will need to be addressed in client patch anyway? Leaving abilities essentially broken for long periods isn't exactly fun.

Well sure, all things considered. But in this case, unskilled and badly geared paladins being able to destroy other players in PvP trumped any fun the paladins may have had by combining AW and DS. It was an emergency fix.

(Lest this gets turned into "Ret was nerfed for PvP" that was the case in this particular example. Bubble wings isn't a major PvE issue. However, Ret was doing too much damage in PvE as well before the much publicized nerfs.)