Healers, Respec! GC hath commanded...

#0 - Nov. 18, 2008, 12:26 p.m.

Ok, GC said "tough na-nah" if you don't want to level as a heal spec. Here is my guide to respec-leveling for all healers:

(This should really get stickied.)

PRIEST: Respec shadow. Use your current gear and skills. Benefit from learning how your DPS tree works.

SHAMAN: Respec elemental. Use your current gear and skills. Benefit from learning how your DPS tree works.

DRUID: Respec balance. Use your current gear and skills. Benefit from learning how your DPS tree works.

PALADIN: Eventually you will benefit from learning how your DPS tree works... but don't respec quite yet.

First, you need a weapon. You need the highest damage 2H weapon you can find. I spent 800g on a purple lvl 70 2H sword, but YMMV. You can limp your way through a few quests to get to "Last Rites" in Borean Tundra and get an axe every bit as good as Gorehowl, and save yourself 800 gold in the process... It won't be fun, but at least you'll have your weapon.

Ok, now you have your weapon. But you are a holy pally, so you only have 150 weapon skill in 1H swords and 350 skill in 1H maces. Not to worry. Go the AH and spend 10-25g on the fastest weapon speed 2H of the type you desire. Go to Howling Fjord. You know the wolves that spawn at the gates? Kite one back into town a little ways and then swing away. It'll take about 45 minutes, but you will eventually get to 330 weapon skill with your new weapon type... if you go OOM or -- worse -- OOH while fighting the wolf, kite it to a guard who will kill it for you. Then get a new one. No prob.

Now you have a weapon and enough skill to hit with it. You are ready... or are you?

No, silly pally, you are not.

You see, SP is on all your gear, along with MP5. When you respec to ret, you won't have holy shock anymore, and everything else stinks with SP. You need AP, which means you need str. Buy the lvl 70 PVP blues (if you have the Outland faction rep) for another 100+ gold and then gem them up for another 100+ gold, and now you have the basis for beginning to be a ret.

But rets are "scaleable", right? Yes. They are.

But don't scales go both ways? Yes, they do.

So you will still stink at DPS because your gear stinks. Yes, pally, even after hours of work and travel, and 1000+ gold, you will. You will still stink because you still don't even know your class yet. You have much to learn, Grasshopper... enjoy.

Ghostcrawler's will be done. Amen.

[edit] for all you latecomers...

1) the original post was meant as a criticism to GC's attitude. Telling holy pallies to "just respec" is on par with Marie Antoinette telling the starving Parisians to "eat cake". It is the same sin... hubris. Lack of empathy. Unlike Marie, GC recognized this and took the time to answer. I didn't like the answer, I still don't agree, but I give him props.

2) If anybody tells me "you should have gotten gear"... *preach-preach* *simper* *moan* I swear I will... nothing. Threats are not allowed here, but my threat would've been funny... still I don't need to risk a ban. So I'll just perma-ignore you, like I did one poster already.

3) I did get gear, and I did go ret, and I saw the writing on the wall a month ago or more. Enough time to get the Horseman's helm and Gorehowl from our last guild Kara run and the zombie suit from the world event. What *you* don't mention, and don't think about, is all the time *I* had to spend leveling up 2H swords, and then when I got Gorehowl (thanks, Bearw, for passing it to me!) training up 2H axe. I really did go to Howling Fjords, and I really did beat up on the insta-spawn wolves for the best part of an hour to FINISH leveling that skill... I had even had a head start before that.

Ok, if you've read the edit, now you can post and I won't have to start taking blood pressure meds.

Ghostcrawler

#81 - Nov. 18, 2008, 9:22 p.m.

Less name-calling, more discussion IMO.

Q u o t e:
GC said that we can't be bothered fixing Holy even though your PAYING us to play the game how you like. So you should respec to level as right now Holy isn't good enough.

That’s a bit of a misinterpretation, though I suspect I don’t need to point that out. The Holy paladin is a healing spec. If you take that spec, it’s with the expectation that you are giving up some other strengths in order to be a good healer. We don’t want leveling to be horribly painful for you, but to be honest, I don’t think it is. My answer was more that if you find leveling as Holy (or Protection or Discipline or whatever) too slow, then you do have the option to respec. Many players do. Shadow is probably the most common case of a spec that is used to level even by players that fully intend to heal.

You also make it sound as if we somehow broke existing gameplay here. Healers have never been exceptionally fast at leveling (and neither have tanks for that matter). We think we made things a little easier with the changes to spellpower and similar adjustments for tanks, but I would be surprised if your relative (for your level) dps actually went down between BC and LK.

Also, you are still going to want multiple sets of gear even with this change. Once you hit level 80 and get your stuff gemmed and enchanted it is going to be better for one role (healing, dps, PvP) than for others. The spellpower change makes healing gear better at dps (and vice versa) but it doesn’t mean they become the same thing.

Q u o t e:
Worse, the ignorance that GC showed on the issue--to simply respec--is particularly galling because it is the latest in the long-running line of things where Holy Paladins get different and substandard treatment.

Wow. First, I don’t think “ignorance” is really the word you’re looking for there. I think what you’re trying to say is you don’t like our answer, but it actually in this case is not borne out of ignorance.

I don’t actually think Holy paladins get different and substandard treatment. You did get hurt by the Ret nerfs, and as I said, we intend to compensate you for that. It will be in the next patch, which will be before the 3.1 Ulduar patch. I think it’s exaggerating the issues in order to make your point to describe the Resto druid, Resto shaman, Holy priest or Disc priest as fast leveling specs. I’m not even convinced they are faster than Holy paladins (and if they are I don't think it's from their dps). Many druids level as Feral and many shamans as Enhancement, so I don’t even think the issue of Holy paladins needing different gear from their dps spec is completely fair.

Some classes and specs level fast, and in many cases that has more to do with their mechanics (often stealth and travel) and not their dps. But there have always been players willing to level as just about any spec, and they are all viable. It has never been our goal to make all specs and classes level at the same rate. We’re not advocating re-specing constantly in order to level up but still run as groups, but if you choose to play that way, you’ll probably find enough quest rewards to be able to build multiple sets of decent gear at once.

Ghostcrawler

#102 - Nov. 18, 2008, 10:09 p.m.

Q u o t e:
GC & the rest dont get it, they obvioulsy haver never leveled a holy pally and so have no idea how bad holy pally dps is for questing. No amount of complaining is going to fix it. They have already have decided to wait until after everyone levels to fix it, great plan. Next time I get robbed, then I will remember to lock up the house.

That's not helpful, Sindrys. You have no idea what specs or classes we've played, while of course we have a great deal of data on what everyone's dps is. I don't mean to single you out, but I don't feel posts like this are really contributing to the conversation. You're just calling us ignorant (again), indifferent to the concerns of the player base (which I would hope my frequent posts actually help to allay), and untimely in our changes.

We're just not convinced that gear is the big problem here. Wrath and Lightning Bolt are just not that great, even with good gear, unless you have a talent spec to prop it up. Smite is never going to be an awesome damage dealing ability with any current spec. You can increase the spellpower through gear, but without mana-generation, clearcasting and all of the other bonuses you get in a damage-dealing tree, those spells are just not going to translate into you being a fast leveller. Your strength is in your ability to survive damage through healing, which means you probably won't die a lot, but you won't kill things quickly either unless you dramatically outgear the content.

And if you do want to improve your dps gear, that is a great thing to do while leveling up. There are literally hundreds of quests with gear rewards, and there is no way you'll be able to use every one of those for your primary role. When the healing item isn't an upgrade, or no healing item is offered, pick a +AP piece instead and wear that if you want to melee. Every hybrid I have ever leveled ended up with 2-3 sets of gear (and sometimes even PvP stuff too) -- one was the best set, the one where I picked the blue quest rewards or chose to roll on for boss drops, but the other sets weren't 5 levels behind.

Again, big picture here. You're talking about the dps potential of a healing spec. One, it's not as big a priority to us at getting specs good at their primary role (healing in this case), and two, we don't think it's as bad as you're suggesting. But I'm totally open to you changing my mind on that latter part.

Ghostcrawler

#147 - Nov. 19, 2008, 1:08 a.m.

Q u o t e:
You were told for months about this problem, its A VERY SIMPLE PROBLEM, if you'd get off the goddamn balance see-saw concerning your stupid dueling system, which is still completely broken anyway, you'd have time to fix the mountain of problems you set sit since mid-summer.

This is trolling. Don't do it. It's not helpful and I'm pretty sure other players don't want to waste their time with such posts. If you want to argue your points, do so. Telling us we're dumb or our game is dumb or how we don't listen to how smart you are will get you ignored at best or banned at worst. I have no problem with your message but figure out another way to say it.

Q u o t e:
Not even close. I went from almost 800 dps to barely over 400 at 70 in the same gear on a target dummy.

Is this what other people are seeing?