Why Ret Will Ultimately Fail in 80 Arena

#0 - Nov. 1, 2008, 3:37 p.m.
Blizzard Post
With the creation of these spiffy new forums and the lack of real arena discussion outside of the usual QQ cryfest, I figured it was a good time for such a thread. I Fully anticipate that this may be a long thread, but please try and read at least the majority of it before posting.

I. Preface
II. My Qualifications I guess you'd say.
III. A Melee's role in Arena and what makes them work.
IV. The Problems
V. The Solutions!

I. Preface: Three things I'd like to get out of the way beforehand: One is that ret was overpowered with JoC/SoC doing 75% weapon damage and Divine storm doing 100% weapon damage as holy damage. The original JoTW was a little over the top (a little). However, Now is not then. Stop treating it as such.

Two, Damage in general right now is overpowered. Stop acting like its only ret paladins. Rogues are dropping 10k damage in a kidney shot as well, mages can AP/PoM fireball/ arcane barrage combos for 9k, Doomkins are dropping 5k starfall crits ect. It's not balanced for 70. Get over it :p

Three is that I would genuinely like this to be a *PRODUCTIVE* thread. If you have less then 350 resilliance and a full set of atleast s2, please don't whine or post. Just about any dps class will 2shot you. On an undergeared plate class even my rogue here can get mutilate crits for 3k+.

If you've never been over the 1800s without having to buy your way up there, also please refrain from posting if possible =/ I mean no offense to these people, but honestly you can get just about any class/spec combo to mid 1700-1800 if youre not totally terrible or actually care about arena. ( I will concede some people just don't care about arena; those people should not be posting arena opinions, however.)

The opinions of people stuck in those bracket carry no real value as you have not seen how the game is played where the good gear is obtained. ( In case you haven't seen, every piece of the top tier arena set requires a minimum rating of 2000). I deem a class "unviable" unless a decent amount of people can achieve the full set. ( How many ret paladins have you seen with s4 shoulders compared to rogues/druids/warriors ect)

II. My Qualifications: You can feel free to skip this section if you so please. This section isn't for e-peen, if i wanted that I would go make a pvp movie~ I just feel it important that I try and come off as objective and knowledgeable, and having people see where I'm coming from helps me achieve that end.

I have been playing WoW since friends and family beta i believe it was. I played a warrior to rank 13 and a Ret paladin to rank 12. I have raided every pre-tbc raid instance.

I also have spent a fair bit of time doing arena at 80 on beta using premade characters to make sure all things stay even.

Since then, I have played every class at 70 semi extensively. I have hit Gladiator every season, including a first place finish S1 in 5s.
http://www.wowarmory.com/hall-team-info.xml?se=1&r=Dark+Iron&ts=5&t=The+Challenge&select=The+Challenge
S3 I hit Gladiator on both my mage and my druid, and quite possibly this rogue as well had my partner not quit.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Tichondrius&n=Popprocks
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Burning+Blade&n=Helbovine

After I saw they were making ret a viable in WoTLK i spent the better half of s4 leveling my paladin.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Tichondrius&n=Luigí
According to Arena Junkies, My partner and I are the highest rated double paladin team on BG9 (holy/ret 2s), and something like the 10th highest team with a paladin in the BG.

Now, that we have the worthless crap out of the way, on to the nitty gritty!

III. A melee's role in the arena:
For the sake of this thread, we will consider Rogues and Warriors the classes to which we must measure ret paladins. I do not consider Enh. shaman to fit in here because they have no proven themselvs viable in any fashion of the word. Warriors have been dominant in all 4 arena seasons, Rogues only for 2 and a half (they were pretty much non existent in s1, and you didn't see them untill the back half of s2 with Harp).

There are some common characteristics/requirements these 2 classes perform. If one or more is missing you become ineffective as a melee class. (Hint: Look at rogue representation before they got mobility.)

The First and Foremost job of both is control. Control the opponent through stuns, snares, interrupts and the MS debuff (MS obviously for warriors, wound poison for rogues. This is pretty much one of the most important thing these 2 classes bring. Specifically snare and MS. Being snared makes everything 10x harder. You cannot get in/out of LoS, and you cannot chase people down. A timely intercept--> hamstring can save your healer many, many a time.
#49 - Nov. 2, 2008, 5:49 a.m.
Blizzard Post
It is a well-thought out post.

The Mortal Strike debuff is a tricky one. We do realize how potent it is in Arenas and we have used it on occasion to give classes or specs a good role in Arenas. But then recently we stopped and asked ourself where we were going with MS. If Ret and Enhancement and Feral and whoever ends up with MS, what's the point really? Shouldn't we just start you in Arenas with healing at 50% and be done with it? This is a topic we're thinking a lot about.

On utility, the designers did agree that if we were going to keep hurting Ret's burst dps, which is a big thing they brought to a team, that we needed to give them some kind of tool to make up for it. We're not sure whether that will be a snare or interrupt or whatever, but the feedback on forums like this one will certainly help determine it. I am surprised to hear you say you don't have a lot of control, becaue I think that is the preception of a lot of classes on the receiving ends of your stuns.

Mana, rage and energy are different mechanics. Yeah, duh, I know, but hear me out. To a class with mana seeing players with a resource that never runs out can seem amazing. But the flip side of that is you start a battle with a full bar. A rogue (or druid) does too, but their bar goes dry in 2-3 hits while yours can last for a long time and pack a lot of hits into a short period. Rage can come back for a warrior (or druid) but they start with none and use a lot of it on every swing. Each of them has their advantages and disadvantages and I think we've done a pretty good job overall of preventing any one of them from dominating either PvP or PvE.

Also, anything named Baconstring should be something we get in the game almost no matter what.