Comments on Hunters in Arena @ 80...

#0 - Nov. 4, 2008, 2:57 a.m.

Yes, I want you to read this GC, i don't care if you respond to it or not, but I just want you to read it.

Q u o t e:

Ghostcrawler wrote:

I acknowledge that hunters struggled in the previous Arena seasons. I think it's vastly premature to say the situation is worse now when so few players have even been able to try Arenas at 80. We changed the hunter class quite a bit and we changed all of the other classes you were fighting as well. We don't feel particularly confident predicting what is going to happen in the next arena season, so I'm going to take with a grain of salt anyone who can sort of cleverly intuit what the state of PvP balance will be in LK.

Will we have specs that are too dominant and others that aren't viable? Probably, and we'll work to get both of those cases addressed. Are hunters in either of those camps? We'll all know soon enough.

Source: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=12065283877&sid=1&pageNo=2#26

Yeah, kinda like how Ret Paladins were not OP in beta/PTR eh? Even tho every single person told you so? Kinda like Mages are not OP right now? Like everyone told you so on ptr/beta? It took you 4 weeks to figure that out? It's going to take you another 2 years to figure what out exactly? That hunters did not get what they needed changed to do good in arena?

Did we not stay last in all 4 seasons due to the issues we STILL HAVE IN WOTLK? Name ONE issue we've told you about that you fixed, go head, name it....you can't, can you? Did you help the pets live longer? Did you help hunters live longer? Better CC? Better DPS? Help in LoS? Magic resistance? Help VS snares/melee? Your answer is what? disengage?.....detterence and still get hit becuase they stand behind you thus ignoring your "dodge"???

How are you going to sit here, and simply LIE like this?? Say you don't know how hunters will be at 80?? Did level 80 hunters from BETA not say the same to you as we are saying to you? DO LEVEL 80 HUNTERS WHO ARE DOING ARENA NOT TELL YOU THE SAME ISSUES ARE STILL THERE???

I really don't get you dude, why do you wish to IGNORE issues? You ignore level 80 hunters who play arena and say the class still lacks due to you doing nothing to fix our problems, how is this going to change when all other hunters hit 80? You think if you just wait things will magically code themselfs into the game?

Should we wait another 4 seasons for you to THEN remove arm timer off freezing arrow? BUT let me guess, INCREASE THE COOLDOWN, right? Because you can't just HELP you have to nerf and make things more useless than they were? Or give pets Res? Or make Detterence do 50% reduce hit and also work on magic??? OR fix our clunky GCD issues by removing all non damage dealing abilities from it??? Helping us live longer? A MAGE CAN SURV BETTER THAN ME, he wears cloth, whats your excuse now?

It does not take 1000 hunters to see the problems are there, I can tell you they're there, level 80 hunters who arena tell you they're there, why do you ignore it?

You're going to address the issues? what? every 6 months? lol THNX MAN! I know you're in it for the money, and clearly making people wait months and pay you is in your best intrest, but seriously, cut the bs.

GC, seriously, i don't get how you can post with such blunt lies man, you ignore level 80 hunters in beta, you ignore hunters on live, you're just too hard headed, period.

EDIT: For those of you who keep wanting or saying "where's the feedback" here it is, i've been posting such feed backs since season 2, over and over again:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=12065203251&sid=1

Ghostcrawler

#5 - Nov. 4, 2008, 5:35 a.m.

Q u o t e:
Yeah, kinda like how Ret Paladins were not OP in beta/PTR eh? Even tho every single person told you so? Kinda like Mages are not OP right now? Like everyone told you so on ptr/beta? It took you 4 weeks to figure that out? It's going to take you another 2 years to figure what out exactly? That hunters did not get what they needed changed to do good in arena?

Many Ret pallies don't think they were OP.
We don't think mages are OP right now.
So the whole "every single person" thing doesn't work. But let's continue this line of thinking...

Q u o t e:
How are you going to sit here, and simply LIE like this?? Say you don't know how hunters will be at 80?? Did level 80 hunters from BETA not say the same to you as we are saying to you? DO LEVEL 80 HUNTERS WHO ARE DOING ARENA NOT TELL YOU THE SAME ISSUES ARE STILL THERE???

I really don't get you dude, why do you wish to IGNORE issues? You ignore level 80 hunters who play arena and say the class still lacks due to you doing nothing to fix our problems, how is this going to change when all other hunters hit 80? You think if you just wait things will magically code themselfs into the game?

I'm not sure what lying has to do with it, but that seems to be a common dart tossed around on these forums, so whatever.

You say level 80 Arena hunters who are doing Arenas tell us the same issues are still there.
Yet, level 80 Arena paladins tell us their issues are still there.
And level 80 Arena mages tell us they aren't OP.

So what you are asking us to do essentially is not listen to them but do listen to you and somehow ascertain that they are wrong and you are correct.

I'm just trying to point out why something that seems blatantly obvious to you might not be to us, or even the rest of the WoW community for that matter. It's just not as simple as you make it seem. Now, in retrospect, hunters were weak in the previous seasons of Arenas. But I bet if we fast forward to the end of the next few Arena seasons that none of the specs people are worried about now are actually going to be the ones with a problem.

We made many changes to hunters specifically to improve their Arena performance. I can gather from the tone of your post that they are not changes you would have made. Sorry.

Ghostcrawler

#264 - Nov. 6, 2008, 9:03 p.m.

I am still reading the thread. I have avoided posting again because too many of the responses just want to argue with my statements or with Blizzard design philosophy in general.

I am much more interested in seeing the posts in this thread that are talking about particular situations where hunters struggle or where abilities aren't doing their jobs. To those that have contributed in that way, thank you.

Ghostcrawler

#405 - Nov. 8, 2008, 5:22 a.m.

Q u o t e:
Ghostcrawler, you are a dev. You are an "inside" Blizzard employee. Why are you using opinions when you guys (Blizzard) can data mine for statistics?

We ask for opinions because we value them. Don't think that we don't collect a lot of information out of beta and live. We do. We take those data very seriously. But opinions are useful too. You can see if players are having fun doing what they're doing or what kinds of things they're trying. Sometimes the relationships, especially in PvP, change dramatically all on their own. Some smart player tries something crazy, it works, and then everyone else follows suit.

The mistake a lot of players who read these forums make is seeing these forums and thinking they are witnessing the entire decision making process.

Q u o t e:
GC in my honest opinion is simply hard headed, he has a level 52 hunter who he "accidently" abandoned his pet in Sunken Temple, as he stated. This same guy is now in-charge to design the hunter class's PVP mechanics, and you can see for yourself how terribly it fails.

I am hard-headed. I realize we can ruin a game that million of people love with careless actions. We are extremely reluctant to make balance changes unless they are warranted.

Yes, I had a first character once just like the rest of you. I remember what it's like trying to learn the million things you need to know to play a hunter. Despite the reputation hunter players get sometimes, it's a complicated class. I try to remember what it's like as a new player as we make changes to any class. It affects them a lot too. I think players find stories like that interesting. If you are going to try to turn even cutesie stories against me, that's a little sad.

You all need to chill. Throwing out insults might be part of the whole PvP scene, but that's not going to get your questions answered. I am sure the other players reading these forums would appreciate me not having to take time to remind you of it so often. :)