[TBCC] What am I gonna do with allll these chickens?

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WoW Community Council
#1 - Dec. 19, 2021, 1:22 a.m.
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I believe everyone in TBCC community by now is familiar with the whole “drums” change (at least anyone that cared about it). Drums were strong and desirable to the point that you wanted 4 people in your group to be able to use them. This led to Blizz giving the drums a 2 min CD so that players didn’t feel like they had to use a team of drummers.

This is happening again with battle chickens. Thats right, the wimpy mechanical chickens spawned from engineering… They have a powerful 5% haste buff that lasts 5 minutes that stacks. Throughout Classic and early TBCC we didn’t know there was a way to guarantee a proc, so it was just kinda a “chance” tool to see if you could proc it before a boss fight, or you spawn it during the boss fight and hope it gives the “squawk” buff.

Somewhat recently though, it was discovered how to guarantee a squawk. Since this discovery the parse meta has completely shifted towards “chickens chickens chickens!” and there’s not much the player base or Warcraft logs can do about it. My understanding of it is that it’s a long enough buff that sometimes it can go completely undetected, or it has difficulty being shown in the combat log. So as a parsing community there’s no way to “ban” it or flag it as “this parse had this many squawks” similar to how we have lusts and other singular buffs.

I think most would agree that the squawks from chickens shouldn’t stack at all. It doesn’t seem all that authentic, even if it was possible in TBCC, because it’s such a powerful buff especially when stacked together. 25% if additive or 27.6% haste if multiplicative (can’t remember which). For comparison, drums is about 5% haste. From a design standpoint, adjusting a buff that was only 5% haste there should definitely be removal of the stacking nature of these buffs which is 5x the amount.

Whether it’s providing players and the parsing community with methods to handle it ourselves via better combat log detection (similar to lust or long duration buffs) or the much preferred method of making it not stack, it really feels like this should be looked at to keep the feel of the parsing community authentic.

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WoW Classic Game Producer
#2 - Dec. 21, 2021, 7:32 a.m.
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Hi Sixxfury,

So this is something we actually talked about quite a bit internally and we’ve actually already made some adjustments to. Notably, we put out a hotfix a few weeks ago that prevents the Battle Squawk buff from persisting when logged out, with the intent of preventing the case where players would stack dozens of this buff on themselves outside of a raid, and then zone in and get summoned to a boss to do Mega Damage ™.

When developing that fix, our first thought was to simply prevent this buff from stacking entirely as you suggested. After some additional discussion the team decided to hold off on going quite that far to start with and went with the more conservative fix for the real abuse case. Currently we are in a bit of a “wait and see” pattern following that fix.

That isn’t to say the team won’t make further adjustments, but we were somewhat leery of being too heavy handed here as in order to get the full benefit from this buff, you have to take a somewhat convoluted set of actions to trigger it reliably, which becomes even more cumbersome if you are trying to get the full 5 stacks going just before a boss pull, and even more cumbersome still if its being done on a boss that is not already on farm. I’m quite sure that the guilds that care to do so can pull this off quite readily, but it’s still not exactly an apples to apples comparsion with drums, which are simply a button press every 2 minutes. As goofy as this is, it is an authentic interaction, and one that some guilds did take advantage of in some way in the original Burning Crusade. As with any change, the team simply wants to be very careful and not be too hasty (pun intended? maybe?).

As for log detection, that might be something we can look into and try to make better if it’s inconsistent, and it might be ideal if this was something that we could let the parsing community self-police, or not. I’ll follow up on that with the team when we get back from our holiday break and see if there are improvements we can make there.

Thanks for bringing it up in any case. We’ll likely keep talking about it, and let everyone know if we decide to make any more changes here.

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WoW Developer
#5 - Dec. 29, 2021, 10:18 p.m.
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I kind of like the social interaction of min-max guilds planning the professions that will be placed in each group. There’s a social-puzzle aspect of it that I think is worth preserving if possible.

Here’s a half-baked idea: What if the chicken squawk gave you Tinnitus (and was prevented by it), same as drums? I don’t want to just homogenize everything, but the effect is superficially pretty similar (a loud noise that gives you a haste buff). It would reduce the pressure on the social puzzle of planning party professions without removing it entirely.

As Aggrend said, we’ll decide in the new year, I just wanted to throw out another idea to keep the conversation going. :slight_smile: Please poke holes in it; I haven’t thought about it deeply.

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WoW Developer
#12 - Dec. 30, 2021, 7:28 a.m.
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Oh you’re totally right. I wasn’t considering the fact that the durations were wildly different. Well, community council is supposed to be for more unfiltered discussion, so you get to see me wearing my noob hat while I’m on vacation. :wink:

The diminishing returns idea is interesting, but I think it would be more straightforward to just remove stacking. Both solutions would be susceptible to the “rotation” temptation, but if you’re really min-maxing, the fight often doesn’t last more than the 4-minute Squawk duration, so a single squawk would last the whole fight, and you wouldn’t need a rotation; you’d prefer to have everybody else use a different trinket.

Again, no decision here, just checking in to see what you’re all saying and add some thoughts. :slight_smile:

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WoW Developer
#14 - Jan. 1, 2022, 11:19 a.m.
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Yeah, the fact that it wasn’t a rating stood out too. :stuck_out_tongue:

I also agree with you that part of the charm is these low-level items that actually retain value, especially if their value is situational.

I’m sorry you’re getting flak for it. Any proposed nerf is always gonna have people arguing against it, of course. No matter how reasonable the change is, there’s always people who have dumped resources into chasing it that are sad if its taken away. But if it helps you defend yourself from the flak: this isn’t the first place I heard about it (I think somebody @'d me on Twitter first… and as Aggrend said, it was already being discussed) but this is a more appropriate place to discuss it than Twitter. :slight_smile: Thanks for the thoughtful discussion so far!