Thief haters, take this wisdom from a dev :)

#1 - April 15, 2013, 10:01 p.m.

I was checking the Ranger forum to see if I could find more information in the upcoming Ranger buff mentioned on gw2guru interview, and I found this bit that is basically the same we’ve been telling all the time to Thief haters, only that this time comes from a dev (which gives him lots of credibility) and a dev that is usually found on Ranger forums (so not particularly a Thief lover or someone who doesn’t wants his profession to be nerfed).

Very wise words and as I said it’s basically the same we’ve been telling for ages to all those players screaming for Thief nerfs instead of trying to learn to counter one of the less versatile classes in the game and probably the most predictable of them all:

Robert Hrouda.1327:
VitalSuit.1980:
Thieves as well? I hope this is only for pve and not pvp because thieves are the last thing that needs a buff.

Most thieves don’t make it out of the lower tiers because you can mitigate them very easily. As a ranger I shut thieves down all the time who don’t use venoms, especially if you have something like healing spring and Lightning reflexes. One fixes stun, one fixes immob/cripple, and then it’s just dodge rolls at the right moment and CC to shut them down. Also bring wolf for f2 and stay nearby when thieves start doing their stealthy bit, and then be ready to watch them flee in terror.
That of course means their build options are highly limited, and when that happens people can hard counter you more easily.

The changes for rangers coming in this next patch are a step in the right direction for them. I am not part of that team so I won’t be announcing any of the changes unless told otherwise.

And he’s able to counter thieves with a Ranger, one of the professions in most need of a buff, so imagine how well one of the strong classes can counter a Thief when the player learns to predict them instead of calling for nerfs without even trying to guess an strategy to beat a super predictable Thief.

Thanks Robert Hrouda for this, we really needed this from someone whose opinion wouldn’t be dismissed as if he was trying to save his class from nerfing.

Robert Hrouda

#24 - April 16, 2013, 9:12 a.m.

Hey folks, I figured I would swoop in and drop a reply.

I remember playing my ranger in PvP and getting “2-spammed” by a D/D thief and dying in about 3-5 seconds. I had no idea how to stop them, and they seemed intent on finding my heart. I couldn’t even hit the bugger since he blinded me and pulled a stun off. I remember thinking to myself “Man, my ranger couldn’t do 19k damage in five seconds. Thief OP!” Until I actually went and made such a thief out of spite. I’ll admit right now I am not much a thief player… Only about level 30 in PvE, and about 10 games played as thief in SPvP – but in those few games I would just dominate people. Load up the +% damage traits, stealth, and then it’s just a matter of a few button presses. But in playing that thief, I learned how to counter that thief. Bring a stun breaker, a condi removal, some CC, and know how/when to dodge roll. It doesn’t work all the time, especially if my stunbreaker is on CD from a previous fight (Pistol Whip is rough!), but if a thief gets the jump on me I have about 2 seconds to react, and then I make the thief pay.
I consider things like “hundred nades bug” to be OP, where a single attack dos 26k damage in an AOE. Sacrificing so much versatility/defense to be a glass cannon spiker is not OP, it’s a build. That build is just really really good at spiking, and it overpowers almost any other build the thief can bring to deal damage. There are a few builds you don’t see often with thieves that are pretty good, because players weigh efficiency in murdering something quickly to be greater than surviving a drawn out encounter, so they’ll bring the most efficient build to accomplish that… which in my experience has been the D/D heart seeker. There’s some neat shadow-step steal/pistolwhip/quickness/unload type builds out there, but that D/D thief overpowers and obscures the potential for other builds to rise up. In my eyes they could use some more versatility… I know that when I play my ranger I can many different things at once – I have a large tool box of sometimes very useful tools, and that makes me harder to bring down since I am not so easily countered.

Well this is longer than I was thinking it would be, and now I have subjected the thief forum to my punctuation, so I better stop. Also I’ll admit to being little on edge in this forum… I’m a ranger in the middle of a thieves den!

Robert Hrouda

#26 - April 16, 2013, 9:21 a.m.

gimmethegepgun.1284:
Robert Hrouda.1327:
I consider things like “hundred nades bug” to be OP, where a single attack dos 26k damage in an AOE.

/sigh that photoshopped picture keeps on making the rounds doesn’t it?

There was actually a super awesome video of it in WvW, where I watched a single engi take out a group of guardians and warriors by jumping into the middle of them, lol. I looked for the video, but this is all I could find. I feel it’s good enough to represent it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gXAliTpRwk

Robert Hrouda

#34 - April 16, 2013, 9:57 a.m.

gimmethegepgun.1284:
So why is this not ok but thief burst is?

Because there is play in thief burst. There is play there, and that spike isn’t a single attack that’s 150% your max HP in damage. Thieves need to execute a series of skills in a row, in which at any time the victim has the potential to mitigate or have some sort of play to save themselves or stop the thief. You just don’t see that with the 100nades stuff, or its a window so narrow that we as devs weren’t happy with the play from both sides of the equation as attacker/defender.

Robert Hrouda

#44 - April 16, 2013, 10:38 a.m.

Volrath.1473:
let me brake it down for you (and i do not play BS spec)

Basilisk Venom (Elite Skill) > Assassin’s Signet > Cloak and Dagger > Steal > move behind the target > Backstab

By now if you cant avoid a backstab on a 1v1 you are doing it wrong man.
When I’m caught off guard and unprepared is one thing but if I see him coming, no way he will be able to backstab me even once during the fight.

Pretty much this. There’s a lot of play in that build/combo, and so long as you keep your wits about you, you should be okay. There’s also some really interesting feints that can happen withb that build, where at the moment of cloaking, if you let them blow their invulns and dodge rolls early, you can take advantage of it. Everyone expects the damage to come ASAP, but if you delay it even a couple seconds players will blow their skills by over-reacting to it.